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Continuation of $42,000 HT (have quote)


justin_tx_16

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Hey, don't rule out the DWIN TransVision2 DLP projector just yet. Smile.gif

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Coming soon...

Home Theater:

Projector: (Still deciding)

A/V Receiver: Denon AVC-A11SR (European version of Denon AVR-4802)

DVD Player: Denon DVD-3800

Center: Klipsch RC-7

Mains: Klipsch RF-7s

Surrounds: Klipsch RS-7s

Subwoofer: SVS CS-Ultra w/Samson S1000 amplifier

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quote:

Originally posted by KAiN64:

Hey, don't rule out the DWIN TransVision2 DLP projector just yet.
Smile.gif


oh, we arent! i have a dealer friend who can get me a $10,000 projecter DLP for $3500. THe same for the screen, a $3000 screen for $1000.

I did not notice that the sides were RS-3's, we will certainly have to have RS-7's.

Get this, AudioDeminsions, who installed all the speaker wires, put the side speakers 10 feet from the front speakers, and 5 feet from the back speakers... that does not sound right. and when you site down, the side speakers are 4 feet higher than you ear! That can't be right... can it?

bass should not be a problem especially with the wood floor, with a carpet surrounding it. but i will see what he thinks about getting up the Storm III's.

do you think it is ok to have the RC-7 instead of the RF-7 for the center?

------------------

-justin

SoundWise Support

A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers

I am an amateur, if it is professional;

ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5

Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH

RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s>

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Justin, I've had Rel Storm 3's with an upscale Infinity system on the way to Klipsch system with dual SVS Ultras. I guess some of us just have to learn the hard way... and find how much more quality we could have had making the right decision in the first place. Don't get me wrong... Rel is a great English company that makes a better than average sub... but IMHO, the Ultra's and SS's (same audio gear, hand rubbed wood cylinder) are head and shoulders above the Rel in performance.

Justin, I think if you read back on your threads you will find Q-Man and I found that laying out and implementing your room design without picking your speakers and subs was NOT a good idea. It is like the $35k quote you got from the dealer who saw a chance to stick it to someone with more money than audio understanding (at least from their perception).

Why don't you post a scale drawing of your layout and where the in-wall connections are... and with real dimensions some of us may take the time to give you better advice.

Are you sure the gear hasn't already been picked and you are just running a fantasy exercise here. Some of us have already built our fantasies several times over... and are more into making suggestions that may actually count for something in the real world.

Following your threads is confusing as you seem to hop from being sold on many different configurations... and all of them should have been investigated prior to construction of your family's party/HT room. Now that you are finding that you can make better deals, why don't you see if you can get them to allow you to demo their suggestions in your new room... that's what my audio suppliers allow me to do. Even SVS will send you the gear and refund your money if it doesn't work out... and all you will be out is a shipping fee. That's far less than what you will be out by picking an inferior set of subs.

I wish you well in this learning exercise... even if I am a bit confused. cwm34.gif -HornED

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I am going to draw, probably by hand, the room right now.

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-justin

SoundWise Support

A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers

I am an amateur, if it is professional;

ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5

Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH

RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s>

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I am serious about this, it is not a fantasy. This used to be a guest bedroom and since we did not need anymore bedrooms, we decided to turn it into this. That said, we were kind not able to build the room around the speakers.

That said, here are my rough blue prints of the room.

home%20theater%20floor.jpg

WHen you look at the picture, you will notice three doors. THe one on the top left goes out to a hall way, the one below it is the control room, former closet, and then off of the stage is another door, this goes to what was the Nursery, but since I am 17, and my brother is 19, that is not needed anymore Smile.gif

The control room is pretty large, large enough for the equipment. There is a light board on the far side from the door, a rack across from it and you may notice the open spot on the wall that goes into the home theater, that is a window that looks into the theater, to moniter and whatnot.

the stage is 3.5 feet deep and one foot tall and goes from one side of the room to the other (18 feet).

home%20theater%20ceiling.jpg

Ok, here is what the ceilng looks like. We have an 11 foot inset in the center of the room, we were too slow in the process of re-sheet rocking and did not get to put in the indirect lights or the fiber optic star feild, really disappointed in that, but maybe we can figure something else out. Where the stage is, it is also 11 feet. The ceiling is normally 10 feet in the home theater room, and the control room is 9 feet high.

home%20theater%20side.jpg

You can see approx. where the speaker outlets are in this room. We found out, the hard way, that not all of the outlets that were for the speakers turned out to be for the speakers. So instead of 12 speaker outputs (just incase of placement issues) we have a total of 9, (one being a rear surround and two others being next to the front left and right speakers). I am really kinda mad at how they put the side surround speakers so high up. That is one reason i am going with the RS-7's instead of the RF-7's, but still, I think I will need to lower then and move them toward the stage a little.

the stage is just there, not going to dance a jig on or do the West Side Story on it. Basically there to keep the screen from looking like it is hanging from the ceiling and to help with power outlets, speaker wire runs, and I think there is an air duct there. On the sides of the screen there is going to be a heavy curtain that opens and closes, since a rising screen costs so much.

The first bid I got, the one with Mirage, I knew I would not keep. I wanted to go with Klipsch. Then I was told that I should do a 7 RF-7 system. That was fine with me, but then there were concerns about the side speakers and the center. I figured putting dipoles for the sides would be a good idea. The center speaker out of an RC-7 was the dealers decision, basically because of where the speaker wire outlet was, and to keep costs down. He does not think It will be a problem, and saving a few dollars is nice, though I do have a surplus to work with here.

I was advised to go with SVS subwoofers. I have never heard one, but heard great things about them. I decided I wanted those, at the time. After visiting the dealer, and him showing me the RELs, I decided, for my setup, those would be great, maybe upgrade to the larger ones. The SVS's are a little too large for the room, IMHO, and the RELs put out amazing sound, in a small package, with a nice finish (that was decently priced). If you think that dual SVS's instead of dual REL's (about the same price) would be worth it, I will talk to my dealer about that. He told me to keep looking around, he did not push anything on me.

He said that if I called him a day early, he would setup a setup just like mine in a room there. The room has very similar deminsions, only having carpet instead of wood (but we don't have the wood installed yet in ours anyways, which keeps him from bringing them to the house to test out). I want to do that some time this week, I have TAKS and TEKS exams all week, so spending a few hours at Tweeter is probably, not academically smart, of course posting here all the time is not either haha.

I decided to go with a single receiver because of teh cost, the features, and the ease of use it gives. I really like this receiver/amp, so my mind is pretty much set on it, it and the DVD/CD/DVD-A/SACD player. I am not getting the descaler since I can not tell that it does a great improvement, and the screen and projector will be decided whenever my dad's friend (who's brother it is that is a dealer) gives us the bottom line on what we can get.

That is it for now, anymore questions?

Thanks BTW

------------------

-justin

SoundWise Support

A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers

I am an amateur, if it is professional;

ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5

Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH

RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s>

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Thanks for posting your room layout, Justin... it makes me more comfortable about specific suggestions.

Although your room is smaller than my HT room, by no means is it too small for a pair of SVS Ultras. You have two locations that would be good for subwoofers, one is on the right hand side of the stage forming a short corner... and, (probably the best one) in the right rear of the room. The one in the right rear will give you a better reflective corner which will improve your SPL potential. Additionally, the right rear corner lends itself to having a shorter run from the control room to the subwoofer... which is also an advantage from most audiophile perspectives.

I think you will most likely buy the Rel's as status symbols... but you will be missing out IMHO on both sound quality and price benefits of the Ultras. Last time I checked getting a Rel that would come close to an SVS Ultra in performance was still a lot higher in price. The SVS Ultras share the same audio gear as the SS models for a whole lot less money.

If you do get the SVS's I will send you a sketch that you can use to have your uncle build a wooden cradle to match the veneer of your speakers. The cradle will hold both SVS units as a single seven foot column in the back corner. Believe me it will be a center for awesome conversation... as mine has been.

If you go with RF-7's, I would suggest that you use an RF-7 for your center channel. It would be a simple matter for your uncle to build a new motorboard for an RF-7... I can send an email telling him how to do it. Since over 75% of HT sound is directed through the front center speaker... it should be the strongest one in your system.

Hey, but I can understand your desire to buy off the peg... not everyone has the taste, resources and inclination to have things tailor made. So, Rels and a RC-7 would probably be a good "Men's Wearhouse" solution.

You have not shown any prospective seating area to indicate where you want your sweet spot to be. Of course, the shape of your sweet spot has a lot to do with what kind of side/surrounds to use and where to mount them. It also dictates somewhat the location of your Left and Right Mains.

Speaking of which, the door (to the nursery) on the left of the stage and the offset caused by the air handler closet creates a somewhat imbalanced reflective area for your ported front Mains. If it were my room, I think I would create a mini-passageway to the nursery room so that the stage would have a balanced look and equal reflections from the side walls if you have the Mains mounted to the left and right of the screen.

Since your room seems to be wired for a single rear (i.e., a 6.1 system), I would suggest an RC-7 mounted equidistant from the walls and about five-to-six feet high. This is a better match in tone and timbre for 6.1 purposes than additional WDST speakers would be. You will find that mounting an RC-7 on a 6' tall matching bookcase on the rear wall will serve very nicely... in terms of decor and practicality. If you have it wired for a 7.1 system, I would use two RC-7's in the back... they will help compensate in 5.1 and SACD localization for the broad spraying side-surround RS-7's.

RS-7's on the sides (again about 6 feet high) will provide wide coverage for HT, dancing, or quality background music. The di-polar aspect of a single pair of RS-7's will provide plenty of ambient sound in a room of that size... including bouncing off the rear wall to create a phantom ambient center (with the C-7 producing the dynamic punch for HT and proper location for instruments in multi-channel music). Check it out, but I suspect that the best location (in terms of distance from the stage) will probably be about 12-14 feet from the stage... and at six feet high they will accommodate both a wide range of seating configurations as well as a room full of dancing guests.

Another question I had was if your rack is in the control room have you provided a infra red sensor in the main room to transmit a remote control signal to alter the sound level or change a channel, etc.?

Good luck in ending up with a HT of your heart's desire. cwm32.gif -HornED

PS: Good luck with your tests... testing time was always a fun time a year for me.

This message has been edited by HornEd on 05-01-2002 at 02:43 PM

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quote:

Since your room seems to be wired for a single rear (i.e., a 6.1 system)


It is wired for a 7.1, i put two stars there to show that, since it is kinda hard in a 2D enviroment to show that Smile.gif Maybe if I get time I will do a rear shot and a front shot of the home theater, but today is not the day for that. Smile.gif

I am just slightly concerned about having more speakers in there than there is room. I think I will have to go with RS-7's on the sides, but the rest I can handle with RF-7's. I liked the REL's size and sound, but if you think the SVS's would not be too big for this room (sound wise and size wise) that I could go that route.

About the IR. Yeah, that was sort of an after thought LoL. Like the time i built the horse corral and forgot that my truck was still in there, had to take part of it down to get the truck out haha. you would think i would learn, but did the same thing one time when building the horse stable. My only excuse is that I needed to weild and the weilder was on the work truck, so it had to be there........ ok, there goes MY dignity Smile.gif I saw that the wonderful basement home theater just recently built by a fellow klipscher had an IR blaster. That is what I plan on going with, and the Pioneer is supposed to be able to do RF, so we will have to see. ONe thing I am intersted in is the setup where I could use my Palm V hand held to control it. At one of our houses we can control the air conditioner and the alarm system with a Compaq iPaq (there is a new home automation system that will be coming to the states soon from australia. we have it allready due to a contact, it is a really neat system).

I think that the palm pilot or iPaq or other PDA idea would be really nice, any decently priced systems out there for this?

------------------

-justin

SoundWise Support

A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers

I am an amateur, if it is professional;

ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5

Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH

RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s>

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If you liked the Rels, you'll LOVE the Ultras!cwm35.gif

A more natural complement, reference level sub to seamlessly integrate with the RF-7's I have never encountered. Even the bass picky Ear(s) likes the RF-7 and dual Ultra match... and he is no stranger to Rel class subs.

One of the most revealing aspects of a pair of Ultras in your new room is that they are so clean that your guests will think the bass is coming from whatever speaker is playing the directional harmonics of the bass tones... instead of the direction of the Ultras which are actually putting out the low notes. It is uncanny and adds a huge amount of realism to your HT.

No where does cubic inches count for so much as there is in creating the 34 foot long low bass waves that your guests can feel. Go for it, if you don't like them, SVS will take them back and you can get whatever. The only ones that I know of that went back were to trade up to the Ultras. Go or it! -HornED

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Hold on a minute here

The REL Justin did listen to are not the cheapie REL subs.The real REL in my book are the Stentor and Stadium.I would take a Stadium against any SVS if I had the choice,the problem is the Stadium III price makes me green.

Still two SVS Ultras are champs for the asking price.

I do prefer the Aerial SW12 to SVS also,again the problem for most is again the price.At $5000 the Aerial is a wee bit expensive.

Justin if you want the maximum bass quality and output for the price get two SVS Ultras or two SVS SS subs.

Dont skimp on subs,REL will sound great but does not have the output you may need.Unless you buy a REL Stadium ($8000 siree).

For well under $8000 I would rathen get four Sunfire Signature subs,all the output even SVS fanatics could EVER want.And four Sunfire SIg. subs are true stealth sub bass power.

TheEAR(s) Now theears

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Justin asked:

I think that the palm pilot or iPaq or other PDA idea would be really nice, any decently priced systems out there for this?

For a Palm based system, try a program called OmniRemote . You can download a freeware version to try out and see how it works. Now that I got a new HT setup myself, I may have to give it a try on my Palm IIIc. The "Pro" version only cost about $25.

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Steven Konopa

Fredericksburg, VA

Denon AVR3802

RF-3II (Front)

RC-3II (Center)

RC-3II (Rear)

RS-3II (A surrounds)

Infinity RS2000.5 (B surrounds - recycled)

REL Storm III (Subwoofer 1)

Yamaha YST-SW40 (Subwoofer 2 - recycled)

32 inch Sharp (TV)

JVC XV-S65GD (DVD)

This message has been edited by skonopa on 05-01-2002 at 10:50 PM

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thanks guys, i just got home since my last post.

i will look at this, and i guess will reconsider the SVS's. Smile.gif

------------------

-justin

SoundWise Support

A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers

I am an amateur, if it is professional;

ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5

Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH

RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s>

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Justin,

how can you not at least try the svs, f#%k if you dont like it send it back!

also it's not like your short on cask get the rf-7 for center no question!! plus put them afew other places as well you got the flow make it work the best.damn you dont want to do all of this work then put in a dvd and think how it might be better just do it right now!

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Main's-JVC

Center-Fisher

Suround's-Fisher

DVD Player-Panasonic

Receiver-Sony

TV-Philphs 30 inch

Sub-I pretend I have a 7 foot SVS tower of power like HornEd.

In storage-

1973 Walnut Cornwalls

1980 Walnut Hersey II's

1999 Mahogany KLF-30's

1999 Mahogany KLF-C7

2001 Black Ash RB-5's

2001 Black Ash RC-3

Receiver-Yamaha 995

DVD Player-Toshiba 3109

T.V.-Toshiba 52 inch

2 KSW 15's

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i just said i was going to go back to the SVS's Smile.gif

i have a year to upgrade my speakers, so if i get 5 RF-7's and two RS-7's, and by next year they make a RF-9 and RS-9, then I can upgrade to those. i can do that with any of the speakers i get if i use tweeter. also, i have a 30-90 day price guarentee and i can exchange them for new speakers within one year, as i posted above.

------------------

-justin

SoundWise Support

A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers

I am an amateur, if it is professional;

ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5

Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH

RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s>

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That would be a great idea, except there will be music played through this sytem when it is not being used for movies, and I figure it would be a good idea to have equal sound in the back as in the front. that is why i went with the RF-7's in the rear as well as in the front. still debating whether i REALLY need an RF-7 in the front instead of a RC-7, but I guess it will be worth it. Smile.gif

------------------

-justin

SoundWise Support

A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers

I am an amateur, if it is professional;

ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5

Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH

RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s>

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Justin, especially for HT, the match of tone and timbre across the front array of speakers is the most critical in your system. You would be far better advised to have an RF-7 in the Front Center and an RC-7 as a REAR CENTER.

The Front Center is the STAR of the HT show... it handles over 75% of ALL sound in a 5.1 (or above) DVD. The Rear Center provides ambience and localization for dramatic rear sounds... jets, explosions, bullet whizzes, etc.

Now, if you have an amp that plays eight-channel stereo for parties (as I do)... then the importance of matching RF-7's in the rear takes on a different role.

You are on the edge of greatness, Justin, don't slip into the Abyss of the Ordinary... cwm24.gif -HornED

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quote:

Originally posted by HornEd:

Justin, don't slip into the Abyss of the Ordinary...
cwm24.gif
-HornED

I am going with an RF-7 center, but for the rears just two RF-7's, there is no rear center, just rear left and right. Or am I missing something? Are you talking about a 6.1 then with a rear center? I am doing a 7.1. an 8.1 has a center speaker above the sweet spot in the room, from the ceiling, from what I have heard...

------------------

-justin

SoundWise Support

A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers

I am an amateur, if it is professional;

ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5

Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH

RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s>

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just (yet) there is no 8.1 or above. look at it for simplicity sake that 7.1 use 2 rear center & 6.1 1 rear center. you'll always have 2 surrounds w/ 5.1 no matter what. most if they can put those on the sides or somewhat behind the sweet spot. (now somebody's gonna say they put 'em forward of the sweet spot Smile.gif).

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My Home Systems Page

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quote:

Originally posted by boa12:

just (yet) there is no 8.1 or above. look at it for simplicity sake that 7.1 use 2 rear center & 6.1 1 rear center. you'll always have 2 surrounds w/ 5.1 no matter what. most if they can put those on the sides or somewhat behind the sweet spot. (now somebody's gonna say they put 'em forward of the sweet spot
Smile.gif
).


that is just what i have heard was being talked about, or use the extra speaker as a rear center, and then one above you as the ninth later on. but that i feel will be a LONG time coming Smile.gif great for fly overs, but what else? haha

------------------

-justin

SoundWise Support

A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers

I am an amateur, if it is professional;

ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5

Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH

RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s>

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just, i think the confusion comes by the use of terms channels and speakers interchangably. and then you could have matrixed (pseudo channels). no pre/pro or receiver i know of has more that 8 outputs (7 full range + the .1/lfe/sub output). except like denon where you can hook 2 sets of surrounds & run them (A+B). 9.1? far from it if you're talking discrete channels. but one could say 9.1 speakers. see what i mean? Smile.gif

where are you hearing about the ficticious 8.1? Wink.gif

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