Moderators dtel Posted June 16, 2011 Moderators Share Posted June 16, 2011 If you are short you can stand on the table in the avatar. Actually, you dance on it. I do sometimes when I shouldn't And where could you have got that idea, what y'all been doing on the weekends ? [] I would think a brass pole in the center would be a perfect deflector,............ deflect you thoughts from the music. [:$] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 That is ,,by far,, the most "wrong application" for a speaker system..It should be in a theater or auditoriam or hocky stadium,,,That photo is a double WART HOG application...No wonder the 402 is so miss used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted June 16, 2011 Author Share Posted June 16, 2011 I've heard Marks system more than once.....puts a smile on my face. Yep....hard to make a 402 pretty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted June 16, 2011 Moderators Share Posted June 16, 2011 That is ,,by far,, the most "wrong application" for a speaker system..It should be in a theater or auditoriam or hocky stadium,,,That photo is a double WART HOG application...No wonder the 402 is so miss used. I think your right, that plant to the right just don't belong. [Y] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Anyone wanna go play hockey with me in the hocky stadium? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted June 16, 2011 Moderators Share Posted June 16, 2011 Anyone wanna go play hockey with me in the hocky stadium? I would rather watch a table dance if your up to it. [] Technically not if you up to it, but , well never mind you know what I mean. [:$] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudret Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Yep....hard to make a 402 pretty. They don't look too bad to me 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted June 16, 2011 Author Share Posted June 16, 2011 Yep.....u done those up nice for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Now those are awefully nice looking.............but I'm partial to the miss used look myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Hearing JC's K402's/K1133 with a K510/K69 providing the top end was a revelation. We listened to lots of horns and driver combos with this system including my own but this K402's/K1133 with a K510/K69 combo was by far the best. I was really surprised. Wow... I"m not surprised by any of this, as I am a straight axix, 3/4 way setup fan and have one myself. JC's appears to be the most refined and mostly all Klipsch. I just can't afford it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Hearing JC's K402's/K1133 with a K510/K69 providing the top end was a revelation. We listened to lots of horns and driver combos with this system including my own but this K402's/K1133 with a K510/K69 combo was by far the best. I was really surprised. Wow... I"m not surprised by any of this, as I am a straight axix, 3/4 way setup fan and have one myself. JC's appears to be the most refined and mostly all Klipsch. I just can't afford it. This was my favorite setup of all we listened to and we went through a large array of horns. It was not what I was expecting to like best. I also learned why those jbl/beyma baby cheeks are so popular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 I can clearly hear "smear" (lack of time alignment....blurriness) on my corns and lascalas. It becomes much more noticable when I A/B with my time aligned MCM system. The clarity of the MCM is far superior. Can the lack of time alignment in a speaker produce an experience that does resemble "imaging"? We have heard ALK discuss this time and again that at low volumes this mis-alignment seems to produce a nice "ambience". Conversely as the volume goes up, it begins to become a blaring mess of non-clarity as multiple drivers spew the same sounds but at different times. PWK told me that the tweeter misalignment on the Khorn and LaScala was the "least sensitive region of our hearing" and that we could tolerate several milliseconds on speech and music. If you look at the misalignment of a LaScala to a K401 horn, it's only about 6-8 inches, so if it's about 1/4 wave or less, it should theoretically "image" better than a Khorn or Jubillee with any non-time aligned top section, since bot the K and J bass bins are longer horns than the LS bass bin. But we are most sensitive to the midrange in all cases and certainly the K402, with whatever driver, does so many "righter" than the rest of the pack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 My experience is that the room that you listen to them in is still very important: the K-402 is able to keep its SPL polars controlled down to about 300 Hz or below - something that no other speaker that I know of can do. Roy now uses the K-402 as a midbass horn with a larger throat for this reason, hence the large size of the horn. I would look to to Danley Sound Labs synergy horns, the Jericho being the monster of all monsters, as the state of the art "point source" solutions. They pass a full decade of square waves, so you can't get more time algned than that.........all in the same horn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 I would look to to Danley Sound Labs synergy horns, the Jericho being the monster of all monsters, as the state of the art "point source" solutions. They pass a full decade of square waves, so you can't get more time algned than that.........all in the same hornGood point: I yield to the learned man from Michigan. There are probably other midrange+hf controlled coverage horns out there that don't lose control of their polars down to 300 Hz (vertical or horizontal)...just not ones that I'm aware of in the Klipsch product lineup.Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Roy now uses the K-402 as a midbass horn with a larger throat for this reason, hence the large size of the horn. Nope, it's the same size throat (2" with an 8" driver) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 PWK told me that the tweeter misalignment on the Khorn and LaScala was the "least sensitive region of our hearing" and that we could tolerate several milliseconds on speech and music.I'm going to have to disagree with the author on this point... This is a pretty big deal, IMHO. The wavelength of sound at tweeter/midrange crossover in Heritage speakers (approximately 5 KHz) is ~2.71 inches (6.9 cm). Experience says that you need to be within 1/4 wavelength alignment to hear the full benefit: that's 0.63 inches (1.7 cm)...(!) Very apparent soundstage and timbre changes occur when you correct for midrange/tweeter misalignment to this level of accuracy. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 One thing I noticed right after doing the JubScala conversion was that I could tell right away if the drummer had two bass drums, and could tell exactly where they were.Some songs on the Rickie Lee Jones record (her first, self-titled, LP or CD) feature a number of drums and drummers at various locations and distances, and it's an interesting sensation to be able to place them all in space. Most instruments in modern recordings are place by mixing board rather than true space. I like the work of Bob James and pretty much everything Steely Dan ever did for multitrack illusions. Some of my favs that appear to be straight up from live studio recordings are the "Take Five" album by Dave Brubeck and Kind of Blue by Miles Davis, both Jazz classics. I'm finding some amazing recordings from the '59 thought the early 60's, expecially anything asssociated with Rudy Van Gelder. So whether you use K-402's or any other large horns (or smaller ones), I have found that aligning the voice coils in real space can get your pretty close to the imaging the people look for, it just depends on other factors involving the room as well as Xover networks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Yes, that's the speakers. I have a cleaner looking setup with a flatscreen now. Notice the carefully placed room treatments on the ceiling and floor..........and the ceiling mounted chrome bass traps. ROFLMAO.....you are too funny, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 PWK told me that the tweeter misalignment on the Khorn and LaScala was the "least sensitive region of our hearing" and that we could tolerate several milliseconds on speech and music.I'm going to have to disagree with the author on this point... This is a pretty big deal, IMHO. The wavelength of sound at tweeter/midrange crossover in Heritage speakers (approximately 5 KHz) is ~2.71 inches (6.9 cm). Experience says that you need to be within 1/4 wavelength alignment to hear the full benefit: that's 0.63 inches (1.7 cm)...(!) Very apparent soundstage and timbre changes occur when you correct for midrange/tweeter misalignment to this level of accuracy. Chris Well, I was a bit surprised also. I never said I fully agreed with him, but I wasn't about to argue. LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 This was my favorite setup of all we listened to and we went through a large array of horns. It was not what I was expecting to like best. I also learned why those jbl/beyma baby cheeks are so popular. What is that dual woofer speaker? Is that a sub? Reason I ask is that I am trying to work on a build for a center channel with dual 15" woofer and that looks exactly like what I am thinking about. Problem is that if I use golden ratio dimensions, the box ends up being less than optimum to fit on top of my tapped horn subs but below my screen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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