why the Heritage line has faded?

[Heritage_Head]

I posted this on the

klipsch avs forum in response to a little debate that arose about why Heritage

line has faded from stores and talks on forums. I spent so long typing it out I

thought I would post it here as well. This is a pretty big debate that I have

seen pop up so many times. Here is my 2 cents on why the Heritage line has faded.

Owners of Heritage speaker will usually say that they wouldn’t trade or sell

them for anything (strange they always seem like they are available used for a

fraction of their cost but so are reference speakers), and the other side is normally

saying that they are too big (if that’s even possible) or ugly. Comparing them

to mid-level reference line stuff (like rf-62ii or even rf-82ii) is apples to oranges.

First Heritage speakers are way more expensive. Yes the Heresy III are only

1600(which is still 500 more than the rf-82ii, and almost twice the cost of the

rf-62ii) but the Heresy III is more of a mini Heritage speaker (almost the

large bookshelf of the line). The cheapest full size Heritage speaker costs $3,750

a pair the Cornwall III (next is $6,000 for La Scala II, and then$8,000 for the

mighty khorns). So unless someone wants to buy used, which a lot of people won’t

(1. People want their money spent on new gear not someone else’s old stuff regardless

of the value. 2. Most don’t know enough about this stuff to know what to buy,

and the list goes on and on). Really the only reference line speaker they make

or made that even compares to the Heritage line would be the rf-7, rf-83, or

the rf-7ii. And even those are cheaper than any full size Heritage. I also think

the fact that they don’t put them in stores to much anymore kind of tells the

story a little bit. If these speakers could sell in stores they would be in

most klipsch stores (Like they used to be). We can try to speculate why they wouldn’t

sell (too big? Look like they are from

that 70s show? Or maybe they don’t look and sound as good as the speakers next

to them that cost $6,000 or less?). It’s the HT age of home audio (2 channel is

almost like vinyl).Now this isn’t saying one speaker sounds better than another

cause that’s taste but If a store put the La Scala II ($6,000) next to rf-7ii ($3,200)

and I mean this in the nicest way especially to the La Scala owners. But if

people had to pick one of the two imo i think 10/10 people would buy the rf-7ii

and save $2,800(And to be honest even if the La Scala II cost the same 3200 imo

the 7s would still out sell them). Then

you put other speakers like rf-82ii or rf-62ii for 1k or less in the mix and I don’t

think the Heritage speakers even gets a 2^nd look for those prices. Heritage

speakers are amazing speakers, i remember when they were in every store that

sold klipsch (I’m 37) so whenever I heard the name klipsch I always thought of Heritage.

I just think they went out of style more than anything. It’s hard to compete

with new age looking stuff that costs half as much and still blows you away. I also

think that klipsch keeps the lineup partially in respect to paul klipsch. Just my

opinion on why they have fallen off the map here in the US. *** note all prices are retail, and all other

info is my opinion only***

[tragusa3]

I responded over there, but will look forward to following the discussion over hear!

[BossHog]

If you have the room, and you have the money...you have the Heritage.

[Groomlakearea51]

It's likely the cost vs the perceived benefit in most cases in the stores. There are a number of marketing factors involved, at least from a store's viewpoint. Price notwithstanding, the size compared to the other offerings in todays market does push buyers to a more compact speaker. Another issue is "newness". The stores push "newness", "the latest", etc. In the case of stores, their survival depends on volume of sales as much as anything else. Big speakers that are not selling fast occupy either floorspace, storage space or both.

It's all about the money.

One observation I have noticed as whenever I go somewhere that offers Klipsch in any flavor, is the general lack of knowledge on the part of the sales folks regarding anything other than what's "on the floor". I always ask the sales "dude" if they also carry the Klipschorn... Well... it's usually the "let me check" answer, and usually the manager comes out and tells me "special order order, paid in full" . I did have one sales "person" stand in front of me and tell me that, "Klipsch does not make those anymore"....

I think..... (yes it hurts...) that many, if not most of the Heritage sales are based upon word of mouth, and the result of a visit to someone's home with the speakers properly set up. Far different than an overcrowded "listening room" with cheap amps with the bass jacked up. Too many "listening rooms" are now devoted to HT which is from a marketing standpoint, the wave of the present and the future.

All about the money......

[H]

[Youthman]

If you have the room, and you have the money...you have the Heritage.

Not necessarily. I have the room and money for LaScallas but do not have any desire to "upgrade" to them. []

[Zen Traveler]

I posted this on the klipsch avs forum in response to a little debate that arose about why Heritage line has faded from stores and talks on forums...

I haven't posted in a while but if you search the Klipsch Owners Thread for "Zen Traveler" and "footprint" you will find my thoughts on the matter. Btw, I hope all of you AVSers are doing well and trying to get along. []

[dtel]

I would guess W O M E N are the big reason, "most" want small speakers that just disappear so it doesn't affect there "decorating", and most couldn't decorate if there life depended on it.

Also there are very few if any real stereo stores anymore and even less who sell what really sounds good, I would guess what ever they make the most money on is there best sounding.

Who decided that tall and skinny was the way to go with speakers ? It's a good thing they picked that over short and fat, HT people would have 6-8 speakers in there room that all looked like subs.

I think it's funny when people post here with something like " I am moving into an apartment and think these forte are way to big, what should I get, I don't think I need a huge speaker like this in a 12-14 room". [:S]

If they could only come up with a great sounding speaker that looked like a pair of shoes or a purse every girl would demand a pair !

[Youthman]

I would guess W O M E N are the big reason, "most" want small speakers that just disappear so it doesn't affect there "decorating"

Agree. That is true for a lot of people.

Also there are very few if any real stereo stores anymore and even less who sell what really sounds good, I would guess what ever they make the most money on is there best sounding.

The closest high end A/V store is about 30 minutes away. They are definitely getting to be less and less abundant.

Who decided that tall and skinny was the way to go with speakers ? It's a good thing they picked that over short and fat

That's the way society thinks all women should look so it's no wonder that speakers have gone the same direction. []

I don't think I need a huge speaker like this in a 12-14 room".

I wasn't sure how well RF-7's would sound in my son's 11 x 11 bedroom but they still sound amazing. They do take up space but actually have a smaller footprint than the previous CF-2's.

[SuBXeRo]

im gonna throw my young 24 year old point of view out there. It has taken me a rather long time to like the look of the heritage collection. One thing i still can't stand is the grill styling of every heritage speaker. Not that i have an issue with the 60's and 70's but the cloth looks straight out of that era and compred to all of the other klipsch speakers as well as the majority of other audio brands....everyone uses a similar style cloth. When i built my new grills for my heresys i did so with a modern day speaker grill cloth in black and i think it gives it a very fresh look.

As to other reasons, the heritage speakers are big! The fortes and chorus's arent so bad footprint wise but when you start to get to cornwalls and up, you need a lot of room. They also have the appearence of a dated speaker. Ontop of that, convince someone that those speakers will far out perform the rf-7's which are a powerhouse at a fraction of the cost.

Further, look at how much people truely want to spend. I am talking the majority of speaker consumers. Look at how much home theater has grown in popularity over the last 10 years. People think that small is good and sufficient and for alot it is. People dont always want to sacrifice alot of room for bigger or better sound. I always say this, anything is an upgrade over your tv speakers.

It sucks, my generation has never seen a klipshorn or a cornwall in person, cornwalls used to be in bars, we have just never seen them, we dont know they are there. If we come to klipschs website and we click hritage we go wtf? why is this so much and why does it look old. The heritage line is a dying series. Speaker stores of independent owners are even a dying breed right now unless you are some uber multitasker doing home installs and somehow staying afloat with other stuff you are selling.

And i agree, women play a role in at well. For most the home is their castle not ours, we just usually pay the mortgage and are allowed to live there . If we are lucky we get our own room somewhere, hopefully the size of a small closet.

I like the 3 way sound, it has depth in the midrange, something i find the reference line lacks in comparison. Vocals are heavenly on the heresys and blow away my rf-7's. I will say though, the reference line is far more versatile sound wise than the hereys are, dance, trance, rap and rock just dont sound as good to me, but, then again, i havent tested them with a sub yet, maybe my view will change. I think its nice that klipsch still offers to make the heritage line, i dont know anyone making the same thing as what was made 65 years ago...Hopefully klipsch will develop a way to always bring the heritage series to the people at maybe a more affordable price. Pit the heritage versus the palladium...Can i justify 8 grand for a pair of the smallest palladium towers? No more than i can justify spending 6-7 grand for a pair of klipschorns. I think i'd be more inclined to buy the palladiums over the heritage because of their newer look, smaller footprint etc. I would buy the heritage to have it, to have some history, to have a legendary speaker, to have something that produces a good quality sound.

Just my viewpoint on it. All speaker mfg's would benefit if stores could carry all of their lines but it just cant and wont happen and it sucks!

[mustang guy]

IMHO, it is supply and demand. At the current price point the demand is very low. With low demand follows low supply.

This is manufacturer driven. Klipsch is not making a strong push on this line for its own reasons. One thing we know for sure is the shipping is more costly and claims more likely.

Klipsch is keeping the line so those of us who like it best will still be catered to. It is almost as though they are custom made.

[jdm56]

Times change. In the sixties and seventies, hi-fi was the thing. Then in the eighties video and surround sound started taking off. Then video games and computing come along and the rest is history. There is so much more competition for the discretionary dollar now.

The hard thing for me to understand is the apparent fact that just not many people are interested in sitting and listening to quality music reproduction. They say they don't have time. I say if you love it you will make time. Me, I NEED my quality time with my music!

The Heritage line is in the same boat with klipsch as the 901 loudpseaker is with Bose. The companies want to thrive and grow and make lots of moolah, but their iconic flagships are just kinda out of style at the moment. I've wondered how long Bose would keep the 901 alive (there've been no "series" upgrades since 1987.) and how long the heritage series would survive. I'm just glad they are both still around.

[seti]

According to the plant manager Klipsch Heritage sales are up by a good bit.

[Thaddeus Smith]

some of us just don't care for the sound coming from the heritage line .. *gasp*

[Islander]

A big factor in current speaker purchasing is that high fidelity sound reproduction is just not as important to most people as it used to be. Many young people are satisfied with mediocre sound, whether from earbuds (even the best earbuds don't sound as good as a high-quality pair of speakers) or from Home-Theatre-in-a-Box setups.

I've had people brag to me about their ceiling-mounted speakers. Saving floor space seemed more important to them than sound quality.

Klipsch makes speakers for people who really appreciate music (and movie sound), but there seem to be fewer of them than there used to be. Hopefully, it's a trend that will pass and people will once again want to hear music in their homes that sounds almost live, even if they have to give up a little floor space in the process.

As for looking modern, horn speakers have certain constraints that are less of a factor for box-type speakers. With those, the cabinet volume is important, but for mid-fi applications, the proportions can be changed, while keeping the same volume. Box speakers used to be wide and shallow, but now they're mostly narrow and deep, so they look more compact from the front.

Speakers like the Cornwall could be redesigned to be taller, deeper and narrower, but it would be a different speaker that would need a different name, so it would have to be established from scratch in the marketplace, without the established reputation of the current model. It could be a way to go, though. The Heresy, however, is about as narrow as it can be with its 12" woofer, so there's little to be gained there.

As for the La Scala II and the Klipschorn, they are what they are. The physics of sound in air means that horn-loaded speakers for music will be large. Klipsch all-horn speakers are "relatively" small, when compared with the large Tannoy speakers, for example. The MAGICO Ultimate speakers are much larger again.

For the last few decades, horn speakers have been sort of exotic/esoteric, so they don't sell in large numbers and are priced accordingly. Avantgarde speakers, for example, cost far more than Klipsch speakers. Their looks are more modern, in a Jetsons sort of way, but their looks and prices mean they sell even fewer than the big Heritage speakers.

The Heritage Series speakers cost more than the Reference Series and less than the Palladium Series. The value is there, and many owners are happy with them for decades, something that can't be said for many famous speakers. They're also more upgradeable than most other speakers, which can greatly extend their useful lives. My 510 JubScalas sound far better now than they did when they left the factory in 1974. I hope to be listening to them for a long time to come.

Don't forget, the Heritage speakers have been refined over the years. The Heresy III and La Scala II, in particular, are very noticeably improved over the earlier models, although the styling has not changed much. Harley-Davidson has taken a similar approach with their bikes, and it seems to work well for them.

H-D has their Sportsters and Big Twins for the traditionalists, and the V-Rod for the riders who want something more modern in every way. Klipsch also has different lines for different buyers, so if the Heritage speakers aren't for you, you can still find Klipsch speakers you'll be very happy with.

[mark1101]

Over the last few months we've had some odd get togethers over our house with younger people attending............like my daughter's graduation.

When some of the younger crowd sees my MCM system, equipment, and other Heritage speakers I have repeatedly heard a an interesting term........."Old School". They call my stuff "old school".

Basically out of style or retro to them. Something that they wouldn't own, the same way I wouldn't own a rotary dial phone anymore.

I will say they marveled at the sound, but the younger "mobile" generation doesn't care about big speakers and audiophile systems. Good ear phones can sound wonderful..........and that's what they grew up on.

The whole audiophile "thing" is getting to be more of a "niche" everyday. Heritage speakers are DEFINITELY niche products now, well out of the main stream due to age.

[Boxx]

I will say they marveled at the sound, but the younger "mobile" generation doesn't care about big speakers and audiophile systems. Good ear phones can sound wonderful..........and that's what they grew up on.

The whole audiophile "thing" is getting to be more of a "niche" everyday. Heritage speakers are DEFINITELY niche products now, well out of the main stream due to age.

Without a doubt I agree with this statement. I would also add that this younger "mobile" generation seems to lack the ability to sit down and enjoy music for what it is really worth.

When we sit down and listen to our "vintage gear" this is our way to (and I quote the previous generation) stop and smell the flowers. I cannot do that with ear plugs and an ipod.

This new generation of "I want it now and I needed it yesterday" needs to chill out, kick back and enjoy the listening experience.. Oh, there I go, showing my age again... lol...

[Thaddeus Smith]

Heh.. You old guys are silly.

[SuBXeRo]

with the way technology has evolved, people dont have to invest in a hifi system to get great sound. They can invest, well, i wouldnt really call it investing, lets just say, picking up a decent set of earbuds for like 40 bux or buying an ipod dock like klipsch's which is a fantastic product and affordable taboot. It then trickles down further, not everyone is into speakers or having a system. Now a days you have more options for sound reproduction than ever, some much simpler for people. Gone are the days of having to have a receiver and two outboard speakers, in are the days of ipod docks with built in speakers and amp. Here to stay though are the products our nich seeks, stand alone speakers connected to our motherships of receivers and processors.

I also believe that some people are just not taught what is out there. My dad taught me about b&w since he has them and his carver amp and NAD channel selector. He bought us carousel cd decks and self power speakers, then i got my HK receiver. He saw we appreciated and we liked his hobby and we were ever more immersed. Now with me knowing more than him, my sister has benefited and i built her a 3.0 for free to me, i did it because she appreciates it. Some people are scared of the complexities and dont care to self teach, enter the simple ipod dock for these people. Think about the first time you tried to hookup your receiver "this goes here..i think" and "everything is hooked up right, why the F is it not working *receiver flies out the window*".

Speakers in general are a niche, klipsch is a brand in the speaker niche, heritage is the niche of the brand within the speaker niche in the niche of audio options.

[Ironsave]

I think part of this (almost an extension) is that mainstream music today is largely artificial.

Most is synthesizers and exaggerated bass. (Even most new metal is digitized and compressed; etc).

It seems like a lot of today's music is about one-upmanship; more and more bass; etc instead of real quality sound.

If you grew up listening to that constantly; you lose the ability to discern what real live music and "real" instruments sound like.

I know what an acoustic guitar sounds like; because I grew up listening to my Mom and Grandfather playing.

Buddy Holly; The Everly Brothers; Johnny Horton; even The Beatles and Kenny Rogers are all artists I remember listening to growing up......

(Don't get me wrong; I like some of today's artists; I like Eminem as well as some Gaga on occasion).....

I think the young generation does not know what accurate music should really sound like because they do not hear it on a regular basis....

And as mentioned; an ipod that is portable is king......

My .02

[Youthman]

I will say they marveled at the sound, but the younger "mobile" generation doesn't care about big speakers and audiophile systems. Good ear phones can sound wonderful..........and that's what they grew up on.

My 12 yr old son is in that generation. He loves his iTouch but he is beginning to appreciate his new RF-7's. []