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Klipch Horns vs. Cornwall 2s


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Hi,

I own Cornwall 2's and am very happy with them. They have a sweet spot when the volume is medium and the source is well mixed. The music is dynamic and beautiful. I have them in a small room so I guess that the sweet spot is different for larger rooms. In any event the K-horns used many of the same drivers and the Cornwalls. I also own Heresys and notice that the sound is very similar to the Cornwalls with much less bass. The Heresys with a sub sound very good. I would think that the K-horns would sound close to the Cornwalls. I've read that the bass is a little tighter. However, I think the bass is very tight on the Cornwall. I'm not looking to start a fight but am interested in how the K-horns sound next to a Cornwall. Has anyone actually A/B them? The reason for this thread is that I've been thinking of trading in the Corns for K-horns??

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Look at it this way, if Klipsch was General Motors, the three speakers you mentioned would be:

Klipschorn=Cadillac

Cornwall=Oldsmobile

Heresy=Chevrolet

Nuff Said!! Smile.gif

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HDR,

I would classify the Heritage speakers a little different. The K-Horn is a Mercedes, the Cornwall would be a BMW and the Heresy is a Cadillac. Granted that the crossovers are different for each speaker and that the Heresy is more of a shelf speaker. However, the Cornwall is designed very similar to the K-horn. The Khorn uses a folded bass horn for tighter bass and rolls off at around 45-50hz. While the Cornwall uses a ported design for the bass and can reach down to about 35hz. I would think that the sound of these two would be very similar with the Cornwall. Obviously the K-horn costs more because of its design, however that doesn't make it a better sounding speaker. I would still be interested in hearing from Klipsch fans who have both speakers and the main differences in the sound (a very difficult thing to put in to words.

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Having owned all three speakers, as well as LaScalas, I feel that the main difference is in the presentation of the bass. They all "load the room" in much different fashions. My Klipschorns and Cornwalls both got down to 35 hz or so, but the Klipschorns filled the room in a much different (and superior IMHO) manner than the Cornwalls. With certain floor/corner placements, I can get my Heresy's down to 40hz or so, but the bass does not fill the room as well as the Cornwalls.

The main differences in how the mids and highs sound have more to do with the positioning of the speakers IMHO. For example, the Klipschorns mid and high horns are positioned higher than the Cornwall and Heresy, and by necessity are in the corner and toed in 45 degrees. This will again give a much different presentation than the typical Cornwall or Heresy setup. Just for fun, one day I placed my Heresy's, on their stands, in the corner and mimicked the Klipschorn placement as best I could. The height was still a little low, but I had the front of the speaker out of the corner the same distance the Klipschorn would have been, and had them in the corners at a 45 degree angle. The mid and high presentation was almost exactly as I remembered the Klipschorns. Unfortunately, keeping them this way makes the image far too wide for my H/T purposes.

Frankly, a pair of Heresy's, paired with a quality subwoofer(s), which were not available in the "old" days, can get real close to Klipschorn like performance, for far less money.

Also, keep in mind that PWK's recommended placement for all of the speakers I have mentioned was on the floor, in the corner, facing into the room at a 45 degree angle. IMHO, this was not only to maximize the bass output and minimize distortion, but it meant that the mids and highs of all of the speakers projected a similar "image" into the room, would have a similar frequency response balance, and therefore sounded more alike each other than different.

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L/C/R: Klipsch Heresy II

Surround: Klipsch RS-3

Subwoofers: 2 HSU-VTF-2

Pre/Pro/Tuner: McIntosh MX-132

AMP: McIntosh MC-7205

DVD: McIntosh MVP-831

CD Transport: Bang & Olufsen Beosound 9000

Turntable: Denon DP-72L

Cassette: Nakamichi BX-1

T.V. : Mitsubishi 55905

SAT/HDTV: RCA DTC-100

Surge Protector: Monster Power HTS-5000

This message has been edited by Kevin S on 04-30-2002 at 01:19 PM

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I own Cornwall II's and recently had the opportunity to demo a set of Klipschorns (hooked up to Welbourne Labs Moondogs - 3.5WPC Tube Monoblocks).

The Khorns are simply in a different league. There are several major differences.

1. Horn loaded bass!! Once you become addicted to that clean, horn loaded bass, watch your wallet!! Deep and TIGHT!!

2. There's 3db greater sensitivity on the Khorn, which is most noticeable when hooked up to tube gear. That increased efficiency turns those flea-powered tube amps into audible honey.

3. The image is mind blowing. Bigger soundstage - HUGE soundstage that is.

You certainly need more room for the Klipschorn, and ideally, corners to place them in. The Cornwalls are easier to set up for most - especially when placing Khorns in corners is not an option.

The Klipschorns could be summed up by the Heritage page "tagline" on the Products section of this website:

Klipschorns "Make no Excuses"

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First we Rock, then we Roll!

A Beast is Lurking.........To be unleashed May 2002

*** Alpha Testing Complete ***

This message has been edited by dndphishin on 04-30-2002 at 09:15 AM

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Hmmm, I think the automotive K-Horn comparison may work if you could imagine a Mercedes Motorhome (Yes, they have built 'em!) that handles like a Ferrari. By that I mean, fully dimensioned sound throughout their spectrum with the sensitivity to be lithe and agile on every note, no matter how complex.

dndphishin has it right, once you get the feel of fully horn loaded bass... nothing else is quite as compelling. I love my Cornwalls, but if I had to choose between my K-horns and Cornwalls... all else being equal... I would have to opt for the fully horn loaded bass of the K-horns. -HornED

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Okay guys....Geez!

I was using an analogy between General Motors and Klipsch!!!...did GM buy Daimler or BMW lately?...LOL!

By the way....the Belle would be the Buick, and the LaScala would be the Pontiac in that analogy!!

In no way was I trying to compare a GM product to BMW or Mercedes....but...if i were to look at the automotive world in general....maybe the K-horn is the classic 1933 Duesenberg, the Cornwall a 1937 Cord, and the Heresy an Auburn boat-tailed speedster?...oops...I did it again, didn't I?...E.L. Cord owned all of those marques....hmmmmmmmmm

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If you want to send a private message, or have already done so, be aware I have not as yet been able to retrieve them. Send e-maill instead, please...just note Klipsch forum in the heading so it doesn't get deleted.

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HMMM,

All great posts. It sounds like the main difference in the Khorn vs. the Cornwall is the horn loaded bass. Horn loading the bass requires that the speaker fires into the cabinet and resonate through a transimssion line configuration. Please correct me if I'm wrong but that is my understanding of this? I would think that the bass would sound muffled and roll off at around 50hz. I'm wondering if a viable mod would be to close the port holes on the Cornwall and replace the woofer with one that is made for a sealed cabinet. This would give the Cornwalls the deep solid bass of a sealed cabinet. The driver would have to match the other drivers and the cabinet would have to be braced better. I myself wouldn't do this because I want to keep my Cornwalls stock. When I first got my Heresys the edges on the cabinet were not finished. In other words you could see that the cabinet is made out of plywood. I almost hot ironed on stripping but then decided not to because they wouldn't be stock anymore.

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Trader,

Look at it this way, PWK has had 45 years in which to improve the Cornwall he designed. And he did alot of trying things before he ever got to its design, and continued tinkering trying to improve it since then...I sincerely believe that if there was a way, PWK certainly would have found it by now. Smile.gif

BTW...the woofer used in the Cornwall IS one that can be used in a sealed enclosure...LaScalas, Belles, and K-horns are designed as sealed enclosures.

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If you want to send a private message, or have already done so, be aware I have not as yet been able to retrieve them. Send e-maill instead, please...just note Klipsch forum in the heading so it doesn't get deleted.

This message has been edited by HDBRbuilder on 04-30-2002 at 08:25 PM

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i like the corn design just fine. Smile.gif seems they struck

a perfect balance between extension & impact on that ported woofer section.

& love the port on the front - i can put 'em right up against the wall. what are the reasons for front vs rear ports anywho? seems the rear ports would add more

impact but don't like having to put 'em away from the wall that far. cwm5.gif

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My Home Systems Page

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quote:

HDBRbuilder

Look at it this way, PWK has had 45 years in which to improve the Cornwall he designed. And he did alot of trying things before he ever got to its design, and continued tinkering trying to improve it since then...I sincerely believe that if there was a way, PWK certainly would have found it by now.


I agree completely. I've had my Cornwalls for 15 years, and I wouldn't change a thing.

This message has been edited by Vavoline on 05-02-2002 at 03:19 AM

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi,

It's just interesting to note that all though the Heritage speakers share many of the same components as the K-horn the real difference (besides the bass horn) is the size of the driver lens. On the Khorn they are almost two feet long. This would definetely change the sound from the driver and give a more fuller sound and wider soundstage. I've never actually heard a K-horn but they are huge. They stand almost 5 feet tall and are almost 3 feet wide. I think the actual width is closer to 31 inches and the height around 52 inches but that is one big *** horn speaker. And I thought my Cornwalls were big.

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Trader,

Yes, the Klipschorn is a larger speaker than the Cornwall, but fact is...a Klipschorn in a corner doesn't actually take up but a tiny bit more floorspace out from the corner than a properly placed Cornwall would.

The Cornwall gives more low-end extension than any other Heritage model, EXCEPT the Klipschorn...better than the LaScala, or the Belle, or,(of course) the Heresy. BUT (and this is IMPORTANT), the fact that the Cornwall's Bass is produced by a straight 15" Cone, reinforced by a ported enclosure, INSTEAD of a HORN, leaves it lacking in the CLARITY that a horn-loaded bass end would give...so...even though it has more low-end extension than the Belle or LaScala, they have better clarity in that range...and, of course, with the Klipschorn's further low-end bass extension over that of the Cornwall, the difference is most readily noticeable when you listen to them side by side!

I would suggest that for a very good explanation of the difference between the Klipschorn bass and that of even a ported cone speaker, you should read the words of the Master, himself on the issue. Go to: www.hifilit.com, click on the Klipsch logo there, then look at the article from: High Fidelity Magazine Vol. 1, No. 1-summer of 1951-lead article. Read this article and become enlightened...PWK was pretty damned good at explaining things so that you didn't have to be an audio engineer to understand them!

I hope this helps you some.

------------------

If you want to send a private message, or have already done so, be aware I have not as yet been able to retrieve them. Send e-maill instead, please...just note Klipsch forum in the heading so it doesn't get deleted.

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Trader---ixnay on the sealed box idea, there's no 15" woofer for a sealed box that will match the deep bass AND efficiency of the woofer and alingnment used in the Cornwall. You can't fool Mother Nature:-) To sum it up comparing the KHorn and Cornwall: below 600hz the Khorn has more efficiency, higher output and lower distortion.

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I think you guys are missing the mark just slightly with the automobile allegory, and here is my opinion: The comparison is being made across brands, and the speakers in question are all of the same brand! Now, if you said Klipsch was like Mercedes-Benz and Bose was like Yugo, then I could better see your comparison!

Keep in mind I'm not a big BMW fan, but I use the brand's model names because they make the comparison better than any other brand I could think of. BMW has three basic models; the Seven series Top of the Line, the Five Series Mid Grade, and the Three Series For the Budget Conscious (yeah, right).

None of the three models are any better built than the other, but a higher grade model may be more refined, or use better components. They are still crafted by the same manufacturer. Hence, it is my opinion that the Klipschorn is like a Seven series BMW, a Cornwall like the Five Series, and the venerable Heresy like the "modest" Three Series Beamer.

There. I've put in my two cents. Now back to cranking my KLF-30s, the "Seven Series" of the Legend line. Cool.gif

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1 pair Mahogany KLF-30s

1 Mahogany KLF-C7

1 pair Walnut 1977 Heresys

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Thanks for the interesting read guys, but as far as automotive, Khorns Lambourgini(Countache to be exact), Belle\Scala Ferrari(Schumacher sucks), Hersey Mercedes\BMW. Definite about the bass factor. I can tell between my Khorns\La Scala's\Hersey II's. I did play around with the corner idea(have my Hersey's on 20" custom stands).

Did anyone mention Dodge, ok Viper Smile.gif

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I just have to tell everyone about my newly acquired Cornwalls. Just got them yesterday and fired them up this morning. They are everything you guys said they were,unbelievable. It was love at 1st listen or whatever. It's amazing how little power they require and how good they sound. I'm used to my Altec Barcelonas (voice of the theater)speakers and I'm sorry if that's a bad word on this forum,as I am new. You never know what you are missing until you hear them. This forum is absolutely great for someone who is looking for info on vintage speakers like the Cornwalls. Where else could this info be found? Thanks for sharing.

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