RF7 - how powerful amp?

[RF7X3M]

Hi, just got a pair of RF7 and wonder if my old NAD C350 rated 2x60W is able to provide enough power to those big drivers.

I am not asking if they can go loud as they obviously already know they can, but if more powerful amplifier will have stronger bass and more dynamic on a moderate volume level.

So the question is actually quite technical - would a more powerful amp (2x150W as oposed to 2x60W) provide more fluent supply to the RF7 to the point that it is audiable at low volume?

BTW the sound of the NAD C350 and the RF7 is already quite enjoyable, I am just asking if I could even improve on that The previous speakers I had for 12 years and still plan to keep with me in the future are Jamo X3M (later X870) and I love them!

[Quiet_Hollow]

I am not asking if they can go loud as they obviously already know they can, but if more powerful amplifier will have stronger bass and more dynamic on a moderate volume level.

Not unless you're at the amp's limit at those quiet levels... What your asking for, more bass and a phat tone at low levels, is accomplished by using EQ or bi-amping. Put the power to the drivers that can correct for your ears at low volume.

[MikeFord]

I am not asking if they can go loud as they obviously already know they can, but if more powerful amplifier will have stronger bass and more dynamic on a moderate volume level.

So the question is actually quite technical - would a more powerful amp (2x150W as oposed to 2x60W) provide more fluent supply to the RF7 to the point that it is audiable at low volume?

Not much difference between any two amps below clipping, but there are some differences. I'm tempted to call it damping factor, technically maybe its something else, but to my ear some amps with some speakers vary in the level of bass extension and control from sloppy and phat, to enemic and tight.I don't think its much of a how much power its rated for, as it is how much current can it deliver at low frequencies and low impedances.

Maybe try a couple amps know for phat bass?

Don't forget, at moderate levels your ears are less sensitive to bass.

[Zen Traveler]

...I don't think its much of a how much power its rated for, as it is how much current can it deliver at low frequencies and low impedances.

Welcome to the Forum and to the RF-7 club.

Fwiw, I agree with Mike. It depends how loud you want it and can it deliver enough current to accommodate the impedance dips the RF-7s have been reported to have down to 2.8 Ohms.

[willland]

RF7X3M,

Welcome to the forum.

Great choice with the RF-7's. I am a big fan of NAD gear but I truely do believe the C350 does not quite have the ooomph to drive those dual 10" woofers the way they like to be driven, even though a NAD 60watts is more like 80watts. That amp may be more suited for a big bookshelf or smaller floorstander. The RF-7's are all about dynamics and with the C350, the headroom is just not on tap to really make those woofers thump. IMO.

So the question is actually quite technical - would a more powerful amp (2x150W as oposed to 2x60W) provide more fluent supply to the RF7 to the point that it is audiable at low volume?

I really do believe so. I sold my NAD 925THX(125w/ch all 5 channels driven, 200w/ch 2 channels) amp to forum member Jeff Tubbs to drive his RF-7's and he was very pleased with the combination. I think a high quality 100w/ch amp should be your starting point.

Bill

[RF7X3M]

Thank you for the welcome! And for the info!

Lucky enough to share my music with the RF7 now that forum also rocks!

Will get around one of the bigger brothers of the C350 and see if they are up to the task!

It can take some time, but I am not in a hurry since the current setup is already overwhelming.

The RF7 personality is very remarcable indeed - it has no pity over a bad record or a week link in the system, but once in the sweet spot it is singing like an angel. The sound of it is not exactly comparable to other hifi speakers and I would even go as far as saying it doesn't sound like a hifi speaker. The bass innondated your floor with vibration and the treble is shooting at you. The sounds come as bullets, it is not the feeling that you are in front of a performing band but in the stage with the band.

Those are my first impressions, ah, not least my wife already loves it, she came to listen to some music and I could see she was really impressed with the sound.She finds the sound very similar to what you hear in the cinema rooms and I have that feeling too.

[willland]

Will get around one of the bigger brothers of the C350 and see if they are up to the task!

You could add one of these.

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1317824127&/nad-c272-new-old-stock-

Just a couple of RCA cables from the C350's preouts and you are good to go.

It can take some time, but I am not in a hurry since the current setup is already overwhelming.

I missed this comment at first but still wanted to suggest something that should do the trick.[Y]

Bill

[twistedcrankcammer]

Hi, just got a pair of RF7 and wonder if my old NAD C350 rated 2x60W is able to provide enough power to those big drivers.

I am not asking if they can go loud as they obviously already know they can, but if more powerful amplifier will have stronger bass and more dynamic on a moderate volume level.

So the question is actually quite technical - would a more powerful amp (2x150W as oposed to 2x60W) provide more fluent supply to the RF7 to the point that it is audiable at low volume?

BTW the sound of the NAD C350 and the RF7 is already quite enjoyable, I am just asking if I could even improve on that The previous speakers I had for 12 years and still plan to keep with me in the future are Jamo X3M (later X870) and I love them!

It depends on how much you are willing to spend!

If you like the NAD gear, you will love the old Nakamichi stuff. I compared both when brand new. The PA-5 is rated at 100 watts per channel, the PA-5II is rated at 150 watts per channel, the PA-7 is rated at 200 watts per channel, and the PA-7II is rated at 225 watts per channel. Some other benefits besides a warmer tube like SS amp are they have clip lights, they have a protection circuit that shuts the amp down should they go bad and put out DC (old Adcoms like to blow speakers when they go bad) Also, the STASIS circuitry keeps the wattage output stable independant of the load in ohmage, unlike most amps which double in output as they half the impedance. (very important on the RF-7s) I have 4 of the PA-7s and one PA-7II at this time to power my surround system 7 channel and my KPT-684 sub for now.

Roger

[pite]

Hi, just got a pair of RF7 and wonder if my old NAD C350 rated 2x60W is able to provide enough power to those big drivers.

I am not asking if they can go loud as they obviously already know they can, but if more powerful amplifier will have stronger bass and more dynamic on a moderate volume level.

So the question is actually quite technical - would a more powerful amp (2x150W as oposed to 2x60W) provide more fluent supply to the RF7 to the point that it is audiable at low volume?

BTW the sound of the NAD C350 and the RF7 is already quite enjoyable, I am just asking if I could even improve on that The previous speakers I had for 12 years and still plan to keep with me in the future are Jamo X3M (later X870) and I love them!

It depends more on the NAD C350's capability... Good chances are that it delivers enough juice when bi-amped...There is a relation between SPL/dB and RMS watt. Typically, one needs to double the power in order to increase 3 dB sound...That being said, if you are good at 100w (bi-amped) you may not want 200w RMS...But that's theoratical ideal...Not sure what NAD is capable to deliver...If it's holding up pretty well then you are good!

Never the less, it's the upgrade bug that all of us get hit time to time! It's never enough...hehhehe...

Enjoy it until you choose to upgrade to the next level you want to...

[]

[RF7X3M]

Pite, let me tell you about the upgrade bug in me...its 4:55 in the morning here in Europe and I cant get a sleep! This sound... or maybe I'm a maniac, whichever, I dont want to change anything ) . Love my new life with the RF7 by my side and you know... I kinda understand how you ended up with the signature you have hehehehe no no its not because I am finishing the second bottle wine...but I'll most likely getting another pair. man...

[pite]

Pite, let me tell you about the upgrade bug in me...its 4:55 in the morning here in Europe and I cant get a sleep! This sound... or maybe I'm a maniac, whichever, I dont want to change anything ) . Love my new life with the RF7 by my side and you know... I kinda understand how you ended up with the signature you have hehehehe no no its not because I am finishing the second bottle wine...but I'll most likely getting another pair. man...

That's super cool man...I'm thrilled too (actually going back in time and re-experiencing the thrill when I had the 2nd pair!)!

btw., I just realized your signature Klipsch RF-7 + JAMO X3M (RF7 + X3M) = RF7X3M - [H]...

Good Luck in your decision for 2nd pair of RF-7s...Awesome!

[CECAA850]

Yes, RF-7's sound good with a good amp. They sound GREAT with a stout amp. I'm on my 3'rd version of amplification since I've had mine. 300 wpc of smooooth, chest thumping, pro-amp bliss. Give them some clean watts and they'll reward you. Cheap out on the amps and they'll bore holes in your ears.

[dkp]

Yes, RF-7's sound good with a good amp. They sound GREAT with a stout amp. I'm on my 3'rd version of amplification since I've had mine. 300 wpc of smooooth, chest thumping, pro-amp bliss. Give them some clean watts and they'll reward you. Cheap out on the amps and they'll bore holes in your ears.

Amen to that. I started out with my RF-7s running a receiver at 75wpc. Shortly thereafter I picked up a B&K AVR 307 which is 125 wpc. Both of these units were receivers but the B&K is built like a tank and was sonically much closer to separates. My next step was running separates, also by B&K at 200wpc. There was a dramatic difference in the sound with each equipment upgrade, especially when I got the separate amplification. Your original question was regarding bass output at lower listening levels. This was one of the most improved aspects of my listening experience. I haven't been very active on the forum in a few years but if you run a search for RF-7 recommended amplification you will see CECAA850's comments (and mine) stated very emphatically. Good luck and welcome to the forum!

[heresy]

Try a Rotel amp about 100 watts

[psg]

Quoting http://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/nad-c350_e.html

the quoted "dynamic" power
figures for this amplifier at 135 watts into 8 ohms, 190 watts into 4 ohms and
240 watts into 2 ohms.

So this amp can handle the impedence dip of the RF-7 nicely. I don't think you will get better low-volume sound from another amp. The power input capabilities of the RF-7 are 250 w max continuous and 1000 w peaks. You might be able to get a few dB of compressed sound from another amp, but I doubt it would be worth it.

My two cents...

[RF7X3M]

Hey, just upgraded the NAD C350 to NAD C375BEE.

What a difference an amp makes!!!

The old C350 is 12 years old if I remember well, it lacks the precision of the C375BEE and rated as 2x60W lacks the power of the bigger amp rated 2x150W.

Everything is different between the two amps.. the bass is very controlled as I hoped it will be, the brightness in some poorly recored CD's disapearered (that I found to be an amazing improvement) and the mid-range tones are very neutral and clear which was rather expected result .

The dramatic difference comes at low levels, basically I dont have to crank up the volume to get full sound. That is a fact. If the difference comes from the added power or higher dumping factor or better precision I dont know.

The sources I use are one Marantz CD6000 and a Sony xa5400es CD/SACD. The new Sony has very clear sound and low distortion and outperforms the old 12 year model Marantz. The difference however is not that dramatic, especially if you take into account that the Marantz CD6000 was about 300USD and the Sony is 5x times that

[usmcavenger]

I had the same question a few weeks ago. I had an old school Yamaha that pushed 95 watts per its 7.1 channels. I ordered a pair of RF-7 II's as well as the RC-64 II and a couple Klipsch subs. (neither of which have arrived in the mail yet) So I just bit the bullet and purchased the Pioneer Elite SC-57 which was actually reccomended to me on this forum. The receiver arrived and although my 2 old bookshelf Klipsch speakers are hooked up to it right now, and that's it... The sound has already improved 10 fold! I couldn't believe it. Now hopefully in the next couple days I'll finally have the speakers I've been waiting months for! Oh, and this receiver is insaine! I've always been a Yamaha kinda guy but I might be hiding that one in the bedroom for now on being that this Pioneer is untouchable! I know I didn't break anything down to technical terms but that's because I'm not very good at reciting off numbers and Hertz and frequencies and what not. I just no that it'll be that much better running these speakers off a powerful receiver. Hope it all works out for you!

[RF7X3M]

usmcavenger, do you feel like saying few more word about the Pioneer Elite SC-57? How do you use it? What's the sound like? what are the pros and the cons?

The NAD C375 is perfect for 2ch stereo, has refinement and rage at the same time in terms of sound quality I can say so far only positif comments. However it is rather expensive at 1250 EUR and big and heavy and runs very hot - to the point of making me question if everything is OK with it. At first I was a bit reluctant to mess with it after I saw the review of this amplifier in WhatHiFi, but soon I reliazed they must have their own commercial objectives and decided to ignore them and lucky I was!

So happy with the NAD I am still currious about putting together nice multi-channel system and I wonder if the Pioneer support DSD over HDMI which will allow me to plug the Sony SCD XA5400 directly to it. Hmm....

But today it was one of those ***good*** days. I got a 2.5mm silver plated cable for my RF7 to replace a 4mm coper cable which I had for some time. A lot of people say the cable doesnt matter. It depends on the setup. But cable do DO MATTER, they actually matter more then anything else. For 40EUR (1% of the cost of the system and 4 meters of silver cable) the sound is totally different. The high freqs contain more detail, the bass is more accurate and the mids are splendid . The improvements in the middle frequencies are very importand to me since I was finding the 2way RF7 to lack some details there. Not anymore! what a wonderful experience this was! I have to replay all my music with the new cables cannot get enough of my RF7.

RF7 MANIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!