How Will You Remember Nine-Eleven?

[Audible Nectar]

The real story of 9-11 will never be understood by the general public until they read the following:

"The Grand Chessboard" by Zbigniew Brzezinski (written in 1997)

"Rebuilding America's Defenses" by The Project For A New American Century (Sept 2000 - it's a position paper and available all across the web)

"Blowback" by Chalmers Johnson (2000)

Once these are understood, then I recommend "Crossing The Rubicon: The Decline Of The American Empire At The End of The Age Of Oil" by Michael C. Ruppert (2004).

After reading all of the following, it becomes apparent that the American Public is completely uneducated and uninformed as to how the world really works. Of course, the American people think that the press is really there to inform them - they get their news from corporate sources, and don't read what comes directly from the horses mouth.

I would also state that while the "Loose Change" crowd asks a lot of good questions, I prefer to focus on what is proveable, and there is nothing more proveable than what those in government put in writing and signed their names to.

"The American People Don't Read."

[skonopa]

I would also state that while the "Loose Change" crowd asks a lot of good questions, I prefer to focus on what is proveable, and there is nothing more proveable than what those in government put in writing and signed their names to.

THIS, I can agree with! Hell, there is nothing wrong with questioning some of the bone-headed things that the goverment may have done over the years, but I also rather stick with what is provable from credible sources, not just some theory that somebody is trying to make up in an effert to serve an agenda.

[Audible Nectar]

I would also state that while the "Loose Change" crowd asks a lot of good questions, I prefer to focus on what is proveable, and there is nothing more proveable than what those in government put in writing and signed their names to.

THIS, I can agree with! Hell, there is nothing wrong with questioning some of the bone-headed things that the goverment may have done over the years, but I also rather stick with what is provable from credible sources, not just some theory that somebody is trying to make up in an effert to serve an agenda.

But here lies the problem: There is a near religious fervor applied to the ultra PC notion that if you do not accept the sum total explanation of the event and subsequent happenings - (takes deep cyberbreath) - that's "out of bounds". And that's a notion that I reject. It seems even ten years later that even bringing it up somehow makes you "cuckoo", because that's what the media and politicians want you to think. And that's enough reason to begin one's own path of reading and drawing your own conclusions.

If you don't first ask questions, you will never find truth in any endeavor.

I really hesitated to even respond on this in any form, because I know what a visceral reaction to questioning about this topic brings out in some people. But as I came to this forum in search of truth in audio, I approach these topics with same purpose. There is so much more to 9/11 than ever gets discussed in the mainstream media - and much of what gets discussed in the online independent news and "truther" groups gets lost in a minutae of speculation. There is enough out there on this topic to inform the most curious and truthseeking person you can imagine - but it's a matter of using the most close sourced info you can get ansd staying with what's provable. As I say, "From the horse's mouth", like "ZBig". There isn't much closer to source than that.

I encourage people to read, think, read more and again, think, draw your own conclusions.

[Johnlw7]

The truth is these acts were carried out by religious extremists.If they could have killed more they would have make no mistake.ur leaders drooped the ball in stead of Bunker busting bombs..

[Fish]

The truth is these acts were carried out by religious extremists.If they could have killed more they would have make no mistake.ur leaders drooped the ball in stead of Bunker busting bombs..

I don't want to encourage you but I like your thinkin' []

[Fish]

I encourage people to read, think, read more and again, think, draw your own conclusions.

That sounds good but what about the ones what's two stupit?

[skonopa]

But here lies the problem: There is a near religious fervor applied to the ultra PC notion that if you do not accept the sum total explanation of the event and subsequent happenings - (takes deep cyberbreath) - that's "out of bounds". And that's a notion that I reject. It seems even ten years later that even bringing it up somehow makes you "cuckoo", because that's what the media and politicians want you to think. And that's enough reason to begin one's own path of reading and drawing your own conclusions.

If you don't first ask questions, you will never find truth in any endeavor.

Yes, that may be the case and there may be more going on then people think. However, sometimes just applying Occam's Razor is the best course of action. There is no denying that this could simply be a case of several religious extremists managing to hijack some passenger jets and slammed them into the side of the buildings in an effort to kill as many people and/or cause as much destruction as well. Yes, we could get into all the minutea as to why this happened and what lead up to it and what could be done to prevent, and so on and so on. I've been in engineering long enough myself to realise that the simplist answer may indeed actually be the truth in many cases.

However, I think anybody with a bit of common sense and even the tiniest amount of research can come to the simple conclusion that the notion that some demolition team secretly came in and dropped building 7 was utterly ridiculous and preposterous, when the simple truth (as was already neatly pointed out by LarryC a couple pages back) as simply due to the number of fires that were raging inside/around the building and no way to extinguish them until even the structure of building 7 was compromised enough to cause it to collapse. Come on! Two nearly 1400 foot tall buildings caved in right next to that building? You think, just maybe think, with a little common sense, that severe damage may not also occur to other such nearby buildings, such as #7? I am actually surprised and amazed that other nearby buildings did not also collapse, such as the Deustche Bank building. When it comes to 9/11, I think I am going to stick with my original notion of applying Occam's Razor here and chalk it up to being simply a tragic case of some very bad extremists doing bad things to otherwise innocent people. I just cannot and will not buy into any of the conspiracies or the notion that there are other nefarious dealing going on behind the scenes here.

[djk]

"What "facts" are we talking about here? Provide me links from some CREDIBLE source with these "facts"; Not just from some crack-pot conspiracy theory website! "

Go to the Federal Court that tried the patsy for the 1993 WTC and read the transcript.

Is that proof enough for you?

[skonopa]

"What "facts" are we talking about here? Provide me links from some CREDIBLE source with these "facts"; Not just from some crack-pot conspiracy theory website! "

Go to the Federal Court that tried the patsy for the 1993 WTC and read the transcript.

Is that proof enough for you?

I tried searching for said transcripts, but all my searches kept leading back to that New York Times article that I've already linked to above. Again, were I was reading that it was an attempt to THWART the bombings, not to setup the guy to be some fallguy. Yes, we can certainly debate on the FBI's pisspoor handling of the situation (did they indeed know a bombing plot was being hatched and could they have better acted on it?) and the resulting legal quagmire that Mr. Salem found himself in the middle of as a result, but sorry, I just don't see some nefarious conspiracy here. Again, all I see is a bunch of Monday Morning Quarterbacking now and not some conspiracy.

[BigStewMan]

not just some theory that somebody is trying to make up in an effert to serve an agenda.

and that my friend sums it up completely--as much as i applaud and agree with your posts, common sense doesn't serve their agenda and you may as well bang your head against your monitor. for some unstated reason, they want to find something, and they won't let truth get in the way of their agenda.

[Marvel]

not just some theory that somebody is trying to make up in an effert to serve an agenda.

and that my friend sums it up completely--as much as i applaud and agree with your posts, common sense doesn't serve their agenda and you may as well bang your head against your monitor. for some unstated reason, they want to find something, and they won't let truth get in the way of their agenda.

But everyone has an agenda...

I found it interesting over the past few years, that among certain friends and acquaintances, even the mere questioning of what happened, made one suspect and on occasion, called unpatriotic. Who wants to be on that list?

[Gilbert]

and on occasion, called unpatriotic. Who wants to be on that list?

Oh, but you havn't been to BS land. They exist, and live and breath amoung us, you'll just have to take my word for it, they're there!!

[BigStewMan]

<]But everyone has an agenda...

I found it interesting over the past few years, that among certain friends and acquaintances, even the mere questioning of what happened, made one suspect and on occasion, called unpatriotic. Who wants to be on that list?

oh, i don't doubt that; but, not everyone will lie, cheat, steal, disregard common sense in order to advance their cause. There have been times when i really wanted something to be true; but, the facts just painted a different picture--eventually i had to accept it. there is nothing wrong with an agenda; but, there is when that agenda becomes more important to a person than anything else.

i hear it often and i really don't like the phrase that "questioning our government is patriotic." If that's what makes one patriotic, then we have a whole bunch of patriots that rarely leave their computers or tv sets. we have a right to question, and i'm cool with that--i just don't think that makes us patriotic. when we're attacked and we put our philosophical differences aside and come alongside our fellow countrymen and lend support to those in need--that's patriotic. When i know our armed forces men & women are being killed while supporting our country, and then look at a group of people yelling and holding signs saying "No War for Oil" the word patriot sure doesn't come to mind. War is a horrible thing; but, nobody stops to think about how much evil war has stopped. Please nobody try to tell me that if someone would have just sat down and talked to and sought to understand hitler, stalin, hussein, bin laden, etc....wars could have been avoided.

[Invidiosulus]

oh, i don't doubt that; but, not everyone will lie, cheat, steal, disregard common sense in order to advance their cause.

The US Government will.

[BigStewMan]

oh, i don't doubt that; but, not everyone will lie, cheat, steal, disregard common sense in order to advance their cause.

The US Government will.

because it is made up of people, and people are naturally evil. so, those in government are no worse than those condemning it.