Mike Murdock Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Good Evening, New to this site and looking for some speakers for a vintage phase linear system with 700 series two amp (360 watts rms) and all phase linear components. Any thoughts or feedback regarding performance of the speakers in this system. Thanks for your input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Welcome to the forum. Nice set up. Do yourself a favor and buy a set of new Titanium tweeter diaphragms only $30.00 each from Bob Crites as they are stellar. The stock poly diaphragms in your KLF30 tweeters are the worst that you could be using. Then if you are impressed (and I am sure you will be) buy a set of Klipsch Ti mid diaphragms for even more sonic bliss. After that you might want to buy new capacitors from Bob which will sound better than the stock ones new. After that enjoy. Best regards Moray James. http://www.critesspeakers.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Murdock Posted October 16, 2011 Author Share Posted October 16, 2011 Thank you, I appreciate the suggestions and input. I have not purchased these yet. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 You are most welcome. Sorry I did not understand that you had not yet made a speaker purchase. The KLF30 would be a good combination with a big powerful amp so too would the CF4 which I think given the available power might be a better match. Keep your eyes open and audition some if they come up in your area.. Both speakers are capableof playing very loud and both can make a lot of bass. Are you sure that you want or need that much? The KLF20 and or the CF3 both run dual ten inch drivers (different ones) and can play louder than most ever want or need. While I have not listened to a CF4 my expectation would ber that it would be a better sounding speaker compared to a KLF30. That said the KLF30 will have a much closer sound quality to the Heritage series being a three way while the CF4 is a three driver two way system with a mid crossover point around 800 Hz (a little higher than a KLF30). Hope this is of interest. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Murdock Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 Thank you, this is great information and I will follow your suggestions and input. It makes perfect sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Bum Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Mike (and Moray for that matter), just an fyi. If you replace the old phenolic midrange diaphragms with new Klipsch Ti units, the crossover will likely need further modification (in addition to simply replacing caps). I'm not certain if this is the case with KLF 30s, but it is the case with some of the Heritage models, e.g. replacing a K-61 with a K-53-Ti in a chorus or forte; the phenolics roll off pretty steep above 6kHz, with no high pass filter from the crossover, simply relying on the natural acoustic roll off of the driver; the ti mid's high end response is much more extended, so the crossover needs to implement at 6khz low pass for the midrange. Just something to consider if you end up going this route. Bob's ti tweet diaphragms don't require any crossover mods, and they do indeed make for smoother sounding response. Big thumbs up for his ti tweets, and they're inexpensive. (Gotta love mods that don't cost a bunch but actually improve things.) Mike, good luck on your search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Murdock Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 Thank you very much for the technical information, very good to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Ski Bum: I had reservationsabout mentioning Bob`s Ti mid crossover mod or tweak in my response. The reason being that to hear Bob describe the situation there would seem to be a serious issue with switching to Ti mid diaphragms without the crossover adjustment. I do not doubt Bob`s measurements nor the possible validity of his tweak, I say possible because since I have not heard the impact of the tweak I cannot say if overall things will sound better with it or without. My best guess is that Bob is probably right though because he really knows his stuff. Again I don`t doubt that Bob`s filter tweak does not do what he says it does just what the end result sounds like. Being a fan of less is often better I do plan on implementing Bob`s tweak and seeing how it sounds. That said I have put Ti mid diaphragms into Heresy ll Forte and KLF20 loudspeakers and in each case I found the change to be a significant improvement overall. So as I see it bob`s tweak is a refinement but not a necessity. More folks need to experience the tremendous improvement the Ti mid diaphragms bring to these speakers. Unfortunately for many folks the more complicated a switch is the fewer will try. I could never willingly switch back to a phenolic mid diaphragm, even Bob`s new phenolic which while better than the stock does not match the Klipsch Titanium mid diaphragm. In my estimation the Ti mid diaphragm is a more significant upgrade than the Ti tweeter diaphragm on its own but together they truly bring new life to old classics .While not universally prefered the majority of people who have switched from phenolic to Titanium mid diaphragms have been extreemly pleased with the results. Bob posted his findings and the mid crossover filter schematic to be used with the Ti mid diaphragm over at Audio Karma and I am sure he would be happy to provide it to any who ask. I may well end up using Bob`s filter myself but dont let this stand in the way of upgrading to Titanium diaphragms for mids and tweeters alike. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Pritchard Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Moray, Thank you for your excellent work with the KLF-20 speakers. How do I order the mid range titanium drivers for my KLF-20 speakers? I have alredy put in the Crites tweeter upgrade and crossover network and improved cabinet damping David Pritchard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 sending you a PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftwinger57 Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 This is probably going to sound so stupid but here goes anyway. All day long I hear about Bob Crites and his xovers and mods.If this dude is the best why isn't Klipsch employing him in some fashion or why don't they use his gear. If every speaker could use an improvement why isn't done do begin w/ . I obviously have zero experiance w/ any larger models for I just have a set of 500 smalls for my h/t needs.For my apt 30s would do very nicely to replace my Infinity SM112s I warned you that my statement might not make sense or does it. Then again there is the whole after market car craze. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Murdock Posted October 22, 2011 Author Share Posted October 22, 2011 I see nothing wrong with your statement. If these speakers need sound improvements, perhaps it is better served to look at something else. I really don'twant to fool with them. Just want to play them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 fair enough Mike if you ar not into doing any upgrades for what ever reason that is your choice. The speakers suggested are good out of the box, that said technology moves forward and the company as well as others do offer upgrades which take these speakers to a whole other level of performance. So it all boils down to what you get for your money. As far as I am concerned the older products with some upgrades offer astounding value and performance for those who can turn a screw driver and solder a capacitor. As always YMMV. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killer clown Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 I agree (again) with M J. I would add that the Legend speakers have had time to degrage since they were last produced.K.C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 All day long I hear about Bob Crites and his xovers and mods.If this dude is the best why isn't Klipsch employing him in some fashion or why don't they use his gear. If every speaker could use an improvement why isn't done do begin w/ . I obviously have zero experiance w/ any larger models for I just have a set of 500 smalls for my h/t needs. Here's the longish answer...With most of the older speaker line, the capacitors in the crossovers have tended to degrade over the years. Let's say ten years plus, but some of these are going on 40+ years. The cheapest fix is to replace those caps with a modern equivalent. You can use cheap caps or expensive caps, and depending on what you put in, the tonality can be a little different with each. Beyond that, the diaphragms in the mid driver and tweeter can deteriorate as well. Different diaphragm materials also sound different. There are more choices available today than when Klipsch built them. Bob carries a lot of different products to 'freshen' your crossovers, totally replace your crossovers, replace drivers and diaphragms,offer options in woofer replacements... For a while, Dean G. also did some crossover mods and replacements, his best known was the ones he did for the RF7s. Al Klappenberger has also designed some very highly regarded crossover replacements, and still sells them. His website is a wealth of infomation. Dean G. has another job, having done this on the side. Al has made it a part of his regular business. For Bob, it's also a part of his business. Bob's work is more in replacing to original specs, while Al's are totally newer designs. The prices range from close to the price that Klipsch would charge to very high for the newer designs. Klipsch has a price point, and feel their designs are fine for their products. Others disagree. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Isn't it true that some types of capacitors do not have a history of degrading, while others do? I'm in favor of nearly anything affordable to make the sound better. With excellant CDs (the few there are) or SACDs or Blu-rays, my out of the box Heritage with the AK4 upgrade for the Khorns sound much like the orchestras I used to play in. The situation is complicated because most of us are looking for high fidelity to the imagined original. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftwinger57 Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Bruce ,thank you, that was the most clear and consise anwer that I've been looking for. Degregation over time would be the biggest culprit it seems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randyp1955 Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 Congratulations on the Phase Linear Components! Bob Carver is a Genius. In the mid 70s my brother in law had McIntosh Components and a pair of Klipschhorns. He sold his McIntosh Amp Pre Amp and bought Phase Linear. I have a Sunfire Bob Carver signature Amp 600 watt and a Sunfire Vacuum Tube Pre Amp. I just switched the Tweeter diaphragms in my KLF 30s to Crites Titanium and the system never sounded better. I’m an old two channel guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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