Dr Morbius Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Hi everyone, I'm designing a home for my family which will be built in about 6 to 8 months. I've got my dedicated listening room also known as the "Musical Man Cave" with the dimensions of 11 feet by 15 feet with a 9 foot high ceiling. I'll have a newly redone H.H.Scott 299C amp with my Thorens turntable (from the mid-eighties) and a nice CD player. I originally pictured having Cornwalls against the 11 foot wall. But after reading many posts here, I'm wondering if I should look into La Scala's instead. My question is would they work better in that size room than Cornwalls, or should I stick with the Cornwalls?? What difference could I expect between them? Thank you! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet_Hollow Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 For the money you're going to be plunking down, I'd recommend listening to both in person, well in-advance of purchase. You make the call. Trying to describe their differences on paper would be moot, IMHO. You'll know what you want right then and there when you experience it, without a doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 With La Scala's you may find you also need a good sub or two. That's a lot of big boxes in a relatively small room. A lot of people get by just fine with La Scala's w/o subs though; it's really a question of how much bass is enough to your ears and the particulars of your room, set-up and associated equipment. Personally, I prefer the wonderful, open mids of the La Scala...and the warm, solid bass of the cornwall! But the uber-clean bass of the La Scala is seductive, too. I don't know; it's really a tough one! If you can, hear both and then decide. If WAF is a concern, the Cornwalls win hands down, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Hi everyone, I'm designing a home for my family which will be built in about 6 to 8 months. I've got my dedicated listening room also known as the "Musical Man Cave" with the dimensions of 11 feet by 15 feet with a 9 foot high ceiling. I'll have a newly redone H.H.Scott 299C amp with my Thorens turntable (from the mid-eighties) and a nice CD player. I originally pictured having Cornwalls against the 11 foot wall. But after reading many posts here, I'm wondering if I should look into La Scala's instead. My question is would they work better in that size room than Cornwalls, or should I stick with the Cornwalls?? What difference could I expect between them? Thank you! Steve With that sized room, I would not rule out the Heresy's. A Heresy on a stand with subwoofer in the room, can sound like baby Khorns without needing corners. Here is a quote from tubes-n-horns just yesterday: " Heresy on it's perch. (THERE IS A PICTURE OF A HERESY ON A SPEAKER STAND BELOW IN ORIGINAL POST) I think it really opens up the sound; vocals and piano especially. Reminds me of a baby K-horn. After all that was it's original purpose, yes? The Heresy III is about as good as it gets at any price or size from what I understand. I only have original Heresy's, but I will tell you, they sound fantastic. It's all about matching the speaker with the space. BTW, I have 3 pairs of LaScalas, and the Heresy's are as good, and in a smaller space, they are actually better IMO. As QH stated, there is nothing better than a demo. I just wanted to point out you might want to add a speaker to the potential equation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 11X15 is really too small for LaScala's. Mainly becuase the sweet spot in which you can get line of sight from both corner positioned LaScala's would put your back right up against the wall at the rooms dead center. LaScala's are very long throw. Cornwalls or Hersey's with a sub would be ideal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RRFL Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 LaScala are a much better match for your doorways and you ought to use Krell Amplifiers. [] "Forbidden Planet" Seriously, for me, it's LaScala. I had my LaScala in a room smaller than yours back in 1976. I found the quality of the amp made a major difference as to how close you could be to the LaScala. The LaScala is all revealing of the quality of the components in the signal chain. To mention only 3 of the many amps I have use with my LaScala: The 1975 Marantz 1200B integrated amp 100w/ch "excellent". The Carver design Phase Linear 700 Series II power amp 350w/ch "harsh to unbearable". The 1980's Yamaha B2X 80w/ch class A power amp "Astonishing Invisible Smooth" and my current amp. It cost $3,000 back then and was worth every cent. It is so accurate you can work out the frequency of a low bass note by counting the vibrations with a stop watch.[]. When you turn the bass up it stays clear and just goes deeper. I don't do this at high power levels as the driver would be damaged but at lower volume levels with certain "night club" style music it's sometimes an irresistible subtle sensation. The addition of a Furman P-2300 IT E has made another massive and I mean massive improvement. I also have Heresy now driven by the 1200B and they a remarkable speakers, however, for myself, nothing comes close to the speed detail and realism of 100% horn loading with a really clean amp that has a high capacity power supply. Tri-amping to resolve time alignment would, I expect, make another significant improvement. I have been tempted to remove the mid and high frequency drivers from the enclosure and physically time align them but the low frequency would no longer be in the room corner. So it's all a compromise and completely personal. The question is, where do you stop and that is personal, so I say only extensive listening tests and comparison to natural instruments can resolve this for yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 The LaScala sounds thin in the bass in a large room,it will be painfully thin in a smaller room. I might suggest the vented LaScala, it has the character of the LaScala midrange and the Cornwall bass, both in a smaller room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I sold 3 pairsof LaScalas last year. When I demo'ed them I put them 20ft apart and walked the buyer to an X made of tape that was 20ft from each speaker. I drove the speakers with a 4 watt amp at partial volume using an ipod. Everyone agreed that the sound was amazing. The math was based on an assumption that the LaScala bass bin is a 53hz hi pass horn. A 50hz bass wave has a lenth of 20ft. Therefore, it would be unlikely that a room that is 11X15 can handle long throw bass bins like the LaScala's. You are looking at getting about 100hz out of each bass bin (10ft wave lenth). You can compensate by adding more watts to mitigate the roll off, but the k-33 can only handle 25 watts from 0 to 40hz and the k-43 can only handle 50 watts from 0 to 40hz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet_Hollow Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 The math was based on an assumption that the LaScala bass bin is a 53hz hi pass horn. A 50hz bass wave has a lenth of 20ft. Therefore, it would be unlikely that a room that is 11X15 can handle long throw bass bins like the LaScala's. You are looking at getting about 100hz out of each bass bin (10ft wave lenth). You can compensate by adding more watts to mitigate the roll off, but the k-33 can only handle 25 watts from 0 to 40hz and the k-43 can only handle 50 watts from 0 to 40hz. If the above were true, which it's physically not, there'd be no bass in cars, headphones, or any space smaller than a trailer home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 We're a big help, aren't we? There will be no consensus, because the Cornwall and the La Scala will each do at least one thing better than the other. In the good old days, you could persuade a dealer to let you try both in your home ... but those days are over. My vote would be for a pair of La Scala IIs with a sub, and appropriate electronics. I wouldn't go for a pair of Heresy, because at least my Heresy IIs (used as surrounds) can't hold a candle to the Belle (much like La Scala) I'm using as a center, let alone the Khorn front right and left.I once had a pair of Klipschorns in a room your size (but with a very high ceiling), and yes, my head was practically against the back wall, but the sound was quite good, and an acceptable sweet spot was three people wide, if they were very good friends, indeed.Since you are building anyway, are you sufficiently addicted to build a room about 20 feet long (or more) and install 3 channel --- what PWK called "Wide Stage Stereo" -- on the long wall? It can be overwhelmingly impressive. You could have a La Scala II for each front channel with one sub, or .... if you are really far gone, the FL and FR could be Khorns or Jubs. Keep the high ceiling. Before you build, look into room modes (there are several room mode calculators online). Someone probably could recommend a newer, better way to proceed, but an old-fashioned way would be to build a room within the proportions specified by Bolt. Bolt's polygon for estimating these is reproduced in "The Dope from Hope." I think you can find this series of papers with a Klipsch forum search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 La Scala in the corners of the 15-foot wall, angled at 45 degrees like Klipschorns, and you sit 7.5 feet from the front wall and 3.5feet from the back wall. It could work. You would need a sub, preferably a horn-loaded sub such as a DIY Table Tuba. Or, put KHorns in there, skip the sub and save lots of space and trouble! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.H.E. Droid Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 I stopped using my Scott LK48 with my Cornwalls because it simply didn't have enough oomp for bass at moderate to higher levels. I think the LaScalas will produce more bass at the same wattage, so you want to make sure your amp will be able to drive Cornwalls to your satisfaction. Since you already have the amp, perhaps you can find some forum members in your area that can help you audition it with both speakers before you choose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RRFL Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 We're a big help, aren't we? There will be no consensus, because the Cornwall and the La Scala will each do at least one thing better than the other. In the good old days, you could persuade a dealer to let you try both in your home ... but those days are over. My vote would be for a pair of La Scala IIs with a sub, and appropriate electronics. I wouldn't go for a pair of Heresy, because at least my Heresy IIs (used as surrounds) can't hold a candle to the Belle (much like La Scala) I'm using as a center, let alone the Khorn front right and left. I once had a pair of Klipschorns in a room your size (but with a very high ceiling), and yes, my head was practically against the back wall, but the sound was quite good, and an acceptable sweet spot was three people wide, if they were very good friends, indeed. Since you are building anyway, are you sufficiently addicted to build a room about 20 feet long (or more) and install 3 channel --- what PWK called "Wide Stage Stereo" -- on the long wall? It can be overwhelmingly impressive. You could have a La Scala II for each front channel with one sub, or .... if you are really far gone, the FL and FR could be Khorns or Jubs. Keep the high ceiling. Before you build, look into room modes (there are several room mode calculators online). Someone probably could recommend a newer, better way to proceed, but an old-fashioned way would be to build a room within the proportions specified by Bolt. Bolt's polygon for estimating these is reproduced in "The Dope from Hope." I think you can find this series of papers with a Klipsch forum search. haha Yes we are all a big help as the combination of thoughts reveals the passion we have for this wonderful line of speakers. Either choice is first class and I just went up to measure my heresy considering the possibility of a Tuba HT LP in a 72"x18"x!8" configuration mouth down in the corner on legs with a Heresy on a stand in front or off set to the side negotiating the corner of the tuba and allowing great flexibility for toe in. I have always been aware of the Maths for the LaScala and the Khorns as I read everything 60million times that PWK wrote back in the mid 70's. I would really like a room 32 feet long and a bit wider than that but even when you don't have that my LaScala have defied the maths and as stock standard sound "AWESOME" and the cleaner the amp the closer you can get to them. With a really clean amp my experience is you don't need to turn them up loud to enjoy them and most likely that is why I have always had 100% success in listening pleasure from my LaScala. My LaScala have been the FOH in Large School auditoriums for dances and I have mixed the band through them using the Marantz 1200B @ 100w/ch and then with the phase linear 700 series II 350 w/ch. We would get there very early take our T/T and play records before the gig. Stock standard LaScala are AWESOME. I have broken in my Dayton 15" for my Tuba HT LP max size build and yesterday I ordered a pair of the matching Dayton 12" and I'm going to build a pair of 18"x18"X72". From what everyone has said about the Tuba I think I have now found the subwoofer that will provide the speed I so enjoy from the LaScala. Everything said all opinions are 100% valid and reveal that it's individual preference. My Father has a pair of Heresy Serial numbers 11 & 12. the change over to the new numbering just before the Heresy II. They sit in the corners and he would want nothing else. You can go to all the HiFi shops and listen to all the new equipment and the go back and listen to these Heritage Heresy and have no desire to change a thing. They are really good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RRFL Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Hi everyone, I'm designing a home for my family which will be built in about 6 to 8 months. I've got my dedicated listening room also known as the "Musical Man Cave" with the dimensions of 11 feet by 15 feet with a 9 foot high ceiling. I'll have a newly redone H.H.Scott 299C amp with my Thorens turntable (from the mid-eighties) and a nice CD player. I originally pictured having Cornwalls against the 11 foot wall. But after reading many posts here, I'm wondering if I should look into La Scala's instead. My question is would they work better in that size room than Cornwalls, or should I stick with the Cornwalls?? What difference could I expect between them? Thank you! Steve With that sized room, I would not rule out the Heresy's. A Heresy on a stand with subwoofer in the room, can sound like baby Khorns without needing corners. Here is a quote from tubes-n-horns just yesterday: " Heresy on it's perch. (THERE IS A PICTURE OF A HERESY ON A SPEAKER STAND BELOW IN ORIGINAL POST) I think it really opens up the sound; vocals and piano especially. Reminds me of a baby K-horn. After all that was it's original purpose, yes? The Heresy III is about as good as it gets at any price or size from what I understand. I only have original Heresy's, but I will tell you, they sound fantastic. It's all about matching the speaker with the space. BTW, I have 3 pairs of LaScalas, and the Heresy's are as good, and in a smaller space, they are actually better IMO. As QH stated, there is nothing better than a demo. I just wanted to point out you might want to add a speaker to the potential equation. Have you ever laid your Tuba on their sides with the 90 degree angle between the mouths as shown in the Bill Fiz Tuba stacking thread. I was wondering about this since you have a matched pair and you could invert your centre LaScala and place it centre above the combined tuba mouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Hi everyone, I'm designing a home for my family which will be built in about 6 to 8 months. I've got my dedicated listening room also known as the "Musical Man Cave" with the dimensions of 11 feet by 15 feet with a 9 foot high ceiling. I'll have a newly redone H.H.Scott 299C amp with my Thorens turntable (from the mid-eighties) and a nice CD player. I originally pictured having Cornwalls against the 11 foot wall. But after reading many posts here, I'm wondering if I should look into La Scala's instead. My question is would they work better in that size room than Cornwalls, or should I stick with the Cornwalls?? What difference could I expect between them? Thank you! Steve With that sized room, I would not rule out the Heresy's. A Heresy on a stand with subwoofer in the room, can sound like baby Khorns without needing corners. Here is a quote from tubes-n-horns just yesterday: " Heresy on it's perch. (THERE IS A PICTURE OF A HERESY ON A SPEAKER STAND BELOW IN ORIGINAL POST) I think it really opens up the sound; vocals and piano especially. Reminds me of a baby K-horn. After all that was it's original purpose, yes? The Heresy III is about as good as it gets at any price or size from what I understand. I only have original Heresy's, but I will tell you, they sound fantastic. It's all about matching the speaker with the space. BTW, I have 3 pairs of LaScalas, and the Heresy's are as good, and in a smaller space, they are actually better IMO. As QH stated, there is nothing better than a demo. I just wanted to point out you might want to add a speaker to the potential equation. Have you ever laid your Tuba on their sides with the 90 degree angle between the mouths as shown in the Bill Fiz Tuba stacking thread. I was wondering about this since you have a matched pair and you could invert your centre LaScala and place it centre above the combined tuba mouth. That is extremely clever. I will try it for the fun of it, but I will eventually have to go the way I am, because I am putting a pull down projector screen above them, and another 2' higher would be seriously in the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 ...i think dr morbius just decided to get a wave radio.[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Where did you read that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLSamuel Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Both? Or just go all out and get some Jubilees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Morbius Posted November 12, 2011 Author Share Posted November 12, 2011 A Wave radio...........no, I got a Boombox! Actually, as my story goes - I was in the Air Force in the early 70's and was stationed in Biloxi, Mississippi. I was walking by a music shop and heard the most beautiful classical music. I trotted in and found out I was listening to a pair of Cornwalls they were selling. That's what sold me on them ever since and figured I'd buy a pair when I had the means to build a room for 2 channel music. The room will be about 11'x 15' x 9' high with the Cornwalls being against the 11' wall in the corners and sitting 12 to 14 feet away. I can't really go bigger as costs run $175 a square foot, but my question was would La Scala's work in that size room also or should I stick to the Cornwalls? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 If the above were true, which it's physically not, there'd be no bass in cars, headphones, or any space smaller than a trailer home. you will just have to try it.......pit a pair of lascala's in your car and see how much bass you get...then position them in a 20 ft triangle and compare. simularly.......putting a pair of lascala's on each side of your arm chair facing each ear....won't be too musical we are talking about lascalas right...not headsphones. etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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