Help with RF-62 II

[BraveHeart]

I recently replaced my existing crappy yamaha 5 channel speakers with RF-62 II, RC-62 II, and RS-52 II (bought brand new from authorized Klipsch dealer). I am using Yamaha RX-V3900 and Klipsch SUB-12 in the setup. Bought the new reference speakers purely based on the reviews flying around over the internet.I chose them because I like "V" setting on equalizer since high school days i.e. high bass and high treble. And reviews suggested that Klipsch had a distinct bright sound with crystal clear highs and strong mids; some branded them harsh. But I like that kind of sound.

Anyway, to cut the preamble short........they sound exactly the opposite with no crispness at all. In fact, they sound too melow and warm. Even the bass is very weak without the sub kicking in at 90 hz. I've tried setting them to large and diverted the bass to mains, but to no avail. Even my old crappy yammies have better highs. I am sure Klipsch Reference series speakers sound as claimed, but I am in a fix now after spending close to US$ 2100 and the kind of sound I am getting is nowhere close to what the reviews suggest.

Am I doing anything wrong here??? Pls advise.

[Panacea Engineering]

The Yammy may have more than it can handle.......... I would start with the receiver and look at the available power to push five speakers and the Sub. I am not at all familiar with the Yamaha brand of receivers but the speakers should be able to give you the sound that you are looking for. Possibly the addition of an additional amp will solve some of the issues. Just tossing some ideas out there........

[BraveHeart]

I don't think that's the reason coz Yamaha RX-V3900 has 140 Watts per channel at 8 ohms and RF-62 II has 125W RMS / 500W Peak output. So, I think wattage is pretty much balanced.

Any other thoughts.....???

[Panacea Engineering]

With five speakers hooked up I doubt you are getting anywhere near 145 watts to any of the speakers......Somewhere in the specs it should give you the ACTUAL wattage delivered to the speakers in a 5.1 set up. The 145 per channel is a bit misleading and the reason a lot of people use the pre-outs and add additional amps to their HT systems.

[BraveHeart]

I guess you are right on that account. But Klipsch claims their speakers are very efficient and do not require much power to perform to their fullest. My AVR has bi-amping option. The Front Presence speakers coutput can be used to bi-amp the mains. Can this resolve my issue??

Also, I've checked on other forums people are using normal receivers with RF-62s and they are all praise for them. Mine is a high-end model, so it should power them substantially considering they are highly efficient speakers.

[Panacea Engineering]

Klipsch ARE very efficient. Give this a bit of time as I am sure that someone with some Yammy experience will jump in here. I was just throwing some things out there for you to consider. I have NO experience with Yamaha at all but I do know that the Watt rating of recievers is WAY over rated and very misleading. The ratings they give are for usually two speakers and drops considerably as you add more to the systems. Some people add seperate amps for the fronts and or other speakers in the system which relieves the receivers amps. I don't think Bi-Ampimg will solve what you are experiencing.

Hopefully there is a simple fix for your situation. There have been several threads on the 3900. Perhaps you can Search that and see what you come up with. Good Luck........be patient and it will work out

[elitedemo]

my guess is your thinking the rf62s are more capable than they probably are

im curently toying around with some rf3ii's (and have hooked them up to the xpa2) which look very similiar in specs to the rf62ii but 8" instead of 6.5"(basically they are a earlier version of the 82s) and they do not cut it when set to full without a sub

youve got a good thing started, my recommendations would be as follows, upgrade the towers, then look into an amp, then possibly the sub

[GBShade684]

I may be wrong here, so if anyone wants to jump in and correct me they can definitely do so. That said, there should be four binding posts on the back of your RF-6s IIs. The way I understand it is that the upper posts are high frequency posts and the lower posts are low frequency posts. Essentially connections to your horns and woofers respectively. Make sure you are binding to all four, the two positives with your positive wire, and the negatives with your negative. When I first connected my RF-82s, I didn't connect to the upper posts and for about 2 hours couldn't figure out why I was getting nothing out of my tweeters. Then I went back and jumpered to the high frequency posts(and reversed polarity on my left front because I mixed my wires) and viola! All the beautiful brightness of Klipsch...

[BraveHeart]

No offence, but I think you are way off here. RF-62 II and um sure RF-82s also have a copper shorting strip attached to the binding posts connecting both the positive terminals and negative terminals in order for them to drive tweeter and mid-range should you chose not to bi-amp. So, essentially one can use any +/- pair whether top one or bottom as long as the shorting strip is in place.

I may also be wrong here....but some expert can correct us

[GBShade684]

No offence, but I think you are way off here. RF-62 II and um sure RF-82s also have a copper shorting strip attached to the binding posts connecting both the positive terminals and negative terminals in order for them to drive tweeter and mid-range should you chose not to bi-amp. So, essentially one can use any +/- pair whether top one or bottom as long as the shorting strip is in place.

I may also be wrong here....but some expert can correct us

Nope, I think you are correct. I did not purchase mine from the factory, they were removed when I purchased them. That's why I wanted to address that possiblity.

[Mr. RF62]

http://www.hometheater.com/content/yamaha-rx-v3900-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures

As the link above states, with 5 channels, wattage drops to 69 watts to 81 watts depending on how loud you want to listen and the distortion you can put up with. I think you have enough power (again, depending on how loud you listen) to reach near reference levels. (Most can't stand listening that loud) I can't help but think that there is something in the settings that you are missing. Quite possilbly the tones controls are set weird, if there is a built in EQ might have something to do with it, the sub settings wheather they are set to sub only or sub+mains. I don't recommend the Sub + Mains as thats what your subwoofer is for(low bass boom). I have the RF-62's and I would in no way say they are what your looking for if you like the "V" setting in an EQ. I have hooked these up with an external amplifier that was producing 250watts per channel into these and still would not get what you are looking for without blowing them. I have mine setup with a Marantz SR-6004 and am happy with the sound and performance I get. When not listening to movies, I usually like to have the EQ in the mix when listening to music. I have a gentle "w" as far as the EQ goes, even a cut at 4 kHz. You say that yours is not bright, this might be a case of the room they are in. EX: Too many heavy drapes, floor coverings or furniture that is of cloth material. As mentioned before, check the connections on the back of the speakers to make sure the jumpers are in place. Are the tweeters working okay? Just put your ear to them and you should be able to tell if they are working. Or, maybe its just a case of your hearing going. ... Just sayin'.

[russ69]

...Quite possilbly the tones controls are set weird, if there is a built in EQ might have something to do with it,...

Yeah, something is not set up right, or hooked up right. Even a low power amp will get decent sound out of your speakers. Set the fronts to big and set everything to flat as a start, do that and report back.

[BraveHeart]

Nopes I calibrated my system to flat reposnse at 70db and my normal listening is -10 db below reference level. Very seldom I crank it to reference level. In bass management section, I set all the speakers to small and crossed them at 90hz. Also, I am redirecting the bass output to subwoofer only and not "Sub+Mains". I've tried setting the mains to Large and routed the bass to mains, but the response is anaemic and strangulated. The tweeters are working n so are the mid-ranges. I know there is nothing wrong with the hook up. Coz I gave a reset to avr twice and recalibrated everything but to no avail.

What to do??

[russ69]

I know there is nothing wrong with the hook up. Coz I gave a reset to avr twice and recalibrated everything but to no avail.

What to do??

Well, I can only try to help but if everything is AOK, then trying to help you is not going to be possible.

[BraveHeart]

I think I pinned so much on RF-62s and I think they are not capable enough to offer the kind of sound I was hoping for. They sound strangulated. I think I am gona add a couple of hundred more $$ and go for either RF-82 or RF-82 II.

Compared to RF62 II, do RF82s offer better sound? Also, is there any sonic benefit if I go for RF-82 II instead of simple RF-82???

Pls do not compare RF-82s with other better models of Klipsch like RF-7s and all. Any advice, anyone??

[Dingman]

Well, I'm fairly new here. But I think, based on the evidence you've described, this is not a speaker problem. Obviously, it's not a amp problem as your previous speakers (in the same room, same location\height?) sounded fine.

It seems to me (this I've learned on this site) is that you really need to find another amp to borrow and try. It sounds like a bad match between the speakers and amp.

I say this, because as I swap different amps driving a set of KLF-20's, I'm amazed and surprised at the LARGE differences in sound quality. I had no idea there was such a variety of sound among different amps (and pre's, I guess we have to include them).

I wouldn't drop more cash yet. I'd research with diff equip to isolate exactly what's happening. You're still at the guessing stage, methinks.

[BraveHeart]

I've read on different other forums people running Klipsch RF-62s and 82s off Yamaha, which are lower in specs compared to RX-V3900 and they are all praise about the speakers/avr combo. I don't know what's happening here....

[leftwinger57]

All I know is that when I got my Yamaha RX-V665 at 90wpc I thought it would be the end all of amps. Boy was I wrong,I did push it and it clipped on more than a few occassions.Yes that's a protection circuit but I would think that it would deliver more. My speakers at the time are Klipsch h/t500 smalls w/ a 8in pwrd sub. After confering w/ quite a few forumites all over the place all to a man said you have pre-outs so go w/ an independent amp. So now I still have the Yamaha for H/T sports and a nice Adcom gfa555 200wpc amp w/ an Onkyo P-301 pre and 2 pristine refoamed Infinity SM112s.Bottom line I'll agree it's not the speakers but the avr. If possible get a used amp for 2-300$ and salvage a decent system...

[BraveHeart]

Yeah I experimented and failed miserably. I thot may be RF-62 II (125 Watts) were being over-powered by my receiver yamaha rxv-3900 (150 wpc) for which I paid US$ 1200 brand new. So, I wasn't accepting that my monster receiver had something to do with crappy response of RF-62 II. I rather returned them and got the higher end RF-82 II (150 Watts) instead, and to my surprise they also sound exactly the same way.

I am no amature and know very well that all the hookups and settings are dead on. So, that's what I have concluded after wasting close to US$ 2400 on Klipsch Reference Series speakers (RF-82 II, RS-52 II, RC-62 II) though RC-62 II (Thinking of cancelling the order) is still on its way;

1. Either Klipsch RF-82 II are extremely over-rated OR there is a terrible mismatch between Klipsch Speakers and Yamaha RX-V3900.
2. This particular receiver is rated at 140 wpc, whereas it pumps out between 60 to 80 watts all channels driven. That means Yamaha, of which I was the biggest fan, is grossly misleading customers. But having said, experimented, and painfully experienced all that, Klipsch speakers are claimed to be very efficient. That claim is grossly misleading as well coz even 60 wpc should be enough to drive them to their potential, but they refuse to sound as claimed. It's like a huge ball of muddy, mushy, muffled, strangulated, mixed up response (sort of like a bowl of swirled up noodles), with zero imaging and music detail. I had to literally switch on the processor in my head to tell which sound came out of what. These speakers are terrible as of now.

I am hugely disappointed with the Yammy / Klipsch combo. Sorry but that's more than my 2 cents down the drain for no gain but tonnes of pain.

[Bleeding]

BraveHeart,

after you posted to my RF-82 thread, I also read through yours now as we have the same setup and I'm also disappointed, at least when listening to stereo music.

What confuses me in your case is that you are saying you have a very muddled sound in general and not only for the bass frequencies, is that right?

Because in my case, heights and mids are really fantastic, very clear, what comes out of the tweeter/horn is a very detailed and clear sound that amazes me, althought it's even a bit overpowered, but that's something you would expect from Klipsch speakers.

My problem is only in the bass and deep bass area. The bass is muddy and not "sharp"/kicking when listening to stereo music (but very powerful when listening to movies, on the other hand).

If you really have issues also in heights and mids, there must be something wrong in your setup. Maybe your 3900 has a malfunction.

If you're also only have issues with muddy bass frequencies, then we might very well have the same problem. But I can confirm that high and mid frequencies work fantastic with 82's and RX-V3900, I really have no problem here.