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Center Channel Really Required??


ozarktroutfisher

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OK so stupid question I'm sure ........ but I just have to ask. I have Forte I's and have finally after all these years given in to my son and agreed to build a good theater setup. I love the look of the newer generation floor speakers but just can't part with my Fortes; so they'll serve as the mains. Frankly I've not kept up with Klipsch for many years and stopped by the local rep and he recommends the RS-52 II for surrounds and the RC-62 II for the center channel to go with the Fortes. I see no reason for that not to be good advice, but just thought I'd run it by you guys. The mains will only be about 6' - 7' wide centered on the TV.

Oh and I'm also thinking I can get by w/o a sub since the Fortes get to 32 Hz cleanly. I know they won't hit the low to mid 20's like a real sub, but should work at least for awhile.

Comments?

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center channel is not required but recommended for a "good theather setup". with the mains that close together you could get by for awhile without a center. i would put the mains farther apart and get a center personally.

same thing with the sub, you can do without but....you ARE doing without. a sub is needed for home theather in my humble opinion.

good luck!

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Welcome to the forums.

the local rep and he recommends the RS-52 II for surrounds and the RC-62 II for the center channel to go with the Fortes. I see no reason for that not to be good advice, but just thought I'd run it by you guys.

Wow, I know times are tough and audio gear isn't selling very fast nowadays but man, that is poor advice. The Reference and Heritage speakers are two different worlds. I cannot imagine how the rep believes that a reference center will remotely sound good paired with the Forte's. If possible, see if you can find a single Forte to use as a center. If not that, maybe a Heresy or if that isn't possible and you need a standard horizontal center channel, look for an Academy.

FWIW, you do not have to have a center. Some have had great success using a "phantom" center. The mains produce the sound the center would normally make.

For HT, definitely look into getting a sub. To me, it's a must. IMO, the center channel and sub are THE most important speakers for HT so if it were me, I would try and get both, even if you have to acquire them over time.

Keep us posted and ask all the questions you want. We are here to help.

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Welcome

I am going to agree and disagree with both answerers [:P] it's been like that all day for me. [:S]

With only 6' to 7' between the mains you are better off with only the 2 fortes than anything except another forte considering there that close.

Agreeing with the part about if you can spread them out wider, do it if you have the room.....but that may make you need a center. [:(]

A sub, why YES, you DO need one for HT, no doubt, no main speaker can handle the bass in movies without a sub ........you can also DIY before not having one at all.

Depending on your room width, don't rule out another pair of forte's if you happen to run across some.

I use 6 fortes and a sub in a 24' wide room that's 18' deep, plus it's open to another room on the 18' side that's almost the same size. The mains are about 22' apart but with the matching center you hear no gaps, it's like a wall of sound.

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I recomend a center and a sub. I run Chorus IIs and went without a sub for several years. I recently picked up a sub and am rewatching all of my DVD's again for the firest time?! As far as a center it will give you the proper dynamics from the mains with acurate dialog anchored to the screen. I experimented with "phantom center" for a while and I feel a true center is much better. spread the mains out and go for a center. There is an Academy in great condition on the S FL craigslist for $300.

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i had heresys and if one could say they depict the sound of the heritage series, reference and heritage dont mix well. The heritage has a warmth that the reference series isnt duplicating. As said above, try to get some more fortes, heresys or an academy center. The heresy speaker was actually designed to be a center for i think the belles and the la scalas since there is an obvious size advantage to the heresy. Heritage all the way around would be best, unless you ran a 6.x you would have an extra speaker unless you found someone just selling one. This isnt always something that can be built over night which makes it a challenge.

My other suggestion is buy a whole new ref series and keep the fortes for 2 channel. If you dont like this option, i understand completely, it is just that, another option.

Subwoofers....Yes, it can make or break a HT experience. My subs can dig deep (my emotiva ultra sub 12's) but i know i am missing some LFE below what they can handle. I saw some pirates of the carribean on an thx ultra 2 setup with the ultra 2 subs and when the aztec gold hits the ocean and sends that thump wave out, the ultra 2 presented that noise....my ultras sub 12's dont. I wanted two subs for evenness, had i had the money and with the research i have been doing, i would have definitly made a different decision. Dont get me wrong either, they are good subs so far but there are better out there.

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It has been my experience that the phantom center works perfectly as long as you are sitting in the sweet spot. That is when the speakers 'far apart' as recomended.

If your mains are 'close together', the stereo seperation isn't very good, and the need for a center diminishes. The bad thing about that is that so does the home theater experience. I believe the distance between mains is supposed to be equal to the distance of the listener to the screen. Unless you sit 6' from the screen, your mains are 'close together'.

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Movies with fantom centre can be enjoyable but with proper center speaker it's just better.

I assume your rep tried to match new and current gear to your Fortes, and his choice is not ideal but could be worse.

RS-52 II do surround duty very well and it is not very crucial that it's from different series.

Center, however is another matter and, as others said, you should try and match front as much as possible.

KV-3 suits Fortes fairly well, while Academy is really good. Third Forte would be ideal (you could get a pair and put 1 behind you for back surround).

Also, you said you had agreed to build a good theater setup - a subwoofer is a must then.

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KV-3 suits Fortes fairly well, while Academy is really good. Third Forte would be ideal (you could get a pair and put 1 behind you for back surround).

Agreed on the KV3 as a very budget friendly option and it is also very easy to place into an existing HT compared to the others. I would also add the Quartet to your search for good centers to go with your Forte speakers.

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My advice depends on the typeof movie you watch.

For chick movies and light comedies, you can do without a center and a sub. For action movies full of dynamic range and low frequency effects, you need both. Using any less than 5 speakers and a sub engages Dynamic Range Compression in the receiver to avoid clipping the input signal of the remaining channels when the signal from the missing channels are mixed (added) in. This results in less range between loud and quiet passages, by 7 to 10 dB.

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My advice depends on the typeof movie you watch.

For chick movies and light comedies, you can do without a center and a sub. For action movies full of dynamic range and low frequency effects, you need both. Using any less than 5 speakers and a sub engages Dynamic Range Compression in the receiver to avoid clipping the input signal of the remaining channels when the signal from the missing channels are mixed (added) in. This results in less range between loud and quiet passages, by 7 to 10 dB.

I did not know that. Thank you for pointing it out. My father asked me the other day, do I really need more than 2 speakers to watch a movie. My explanation could have included that information. BTW, I am putting together a fully Frazier bookshelf system with:

early Frazier Monte Carlo's as the L/C/R
early Midgets as the surrounds.

I had a pair of Monte's and actually found a single EXACTLY like the two I have, and Midgets with the same grille and finish. He will be getting the Midgets and a BluRay player for Christmas, as the third Monte is shipping today.

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Early on I had several different reference moels as fronts. My center was like the smallest cheapest Klipsch in the product like and would not keep up with the fronts. I tried the phantom center setting as a remedy using only the fronts. it sounded strange and echo-y on my setup when cranked up.it was fine for network TV sitcoms and chic flics but unacceptable for anything else. The center carries voices and lots of important in a proper system. The sub is absolutely necessary for any HT system.Go with both.

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My opinion is that, yes, a center is absolutely required for movies. Less so if you're in the "sweet spot" between the L/R channels, but this is a very rare occurrance. I watch The Big Country from my HTPC last night. It was an MKV file and DTS encoded, but there was no center channel information. The signal said 3/2/0 (LCR/LSRS/Sub), but the center channel had no information. To me, it was distracting. I believe the center channel, for movies, is the most important speaker.

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First off sorry for the delay in responding to everyone. Between Christmas and a project that I'm working on ..... well you know.

Wow!! I'm very impressed with all of your excellent replies. I participate in a photography gear forum and my less than informed question would have received several negative replies within an hour. I got something from each of you and it has certainly helped me a lot.

I'm a mechanical engineer and frankly a perfectionist at most things I do. This is bad in many ways because it has prevented me from finishing a HT setup. I just keep reading, and thinking, then a new product is released; so I start reading again.... well, again, you know. Anyway I've decided to just do something even if it isn't perfect. My set up is difficult for a few reasons. It's in the corner of a very large room in my basement but my son's bedroom door is only about 2 1/2' from the edge of the TV. This forces the mains pretty close together which I know isn't ideal. This room is approx 900 sq ft and was built for kids with pool and ping pong tables and an efficiency kitchen area. Surround placement will be difficult and I'm considering stands for them which can be moved into place just for movie watching.

Yes I'll get a good sub but the center is still a problem for me. I do believe the Academy would be the best but frankly it's just too large even if I could find one. I have only an 8 1/2" tall spot below the TV to put it and I'm afraid that I'm almost forced into a ref series like the RC-62 II. Heck I even considered just buying the RF 7 II's but was very dissapointed after listening to them at the shop. They were very bright (Boston "Smokin") but it could have been the Yamaha receiver they had driving them. I've always been under the impression that Yamaha was not a good fit for Klipsch. My old faithful amp is an Onkyo M-504 Integra which I think is a much better match. They offered to let me bring in my amp and Fortes for an actual comparison and I just might do that. It would be fun to run a blind test to see what I really thought of them. I'm afraid that I've listened to those Fortes for so long now though (since 1987), that anything else will sound "wrong" to me.

Anyway thanks again for your truly great responses. I'll have to tell how I got my Fortes when I get a little more time. I got to meet Colonel Paul in the process!! Great memory.

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