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help convince me to keep my KLF 20s...


ousig

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hey all - 1st thread. a bit of a background

I have been an avid home and car audio person for nearly 15 years. I have been a Klipsch fan for nearly the whole time also. I have all Klipsch including my outdoor speakers. I simply love and respect very loud and very clear sound so 8 years ago I got my 20s. they were perfect for the situation (college). I had them powered with a 250/channel QSC amp and they played so loud that I never considered a sub. I had to reglue the back panel like many others have done and I put some foam inside but the drivers sound perfect

anyway flash forward to life after college :(

I am now looking at these beauties powered by my Denon AVR2805 but no real way to let them sing (since I have a 2.5 year old). I have a nice SVS subwoofer to fill in the lows now but it is like I have a Corvette driving them around town. They want to sing like before

So I am considering replacing with either the RF52s, RF62s or another brand...I used to have the KLFC7 center but it was too big so I sold it a while ago and got the 52 series center speaker. I really do not want to part with my 20s but they deserve to play like they should and I wont have that option until we get another house.

Hopefully I can get some help here to see how other people have handled the situation. I am considering downsizing to the RF 52s or going with another brand all together.

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I have noticed in our new house with the speaker so close - the living room is 14x18 with the speakers about 10 feet from the couch - the sound seems somewhat "dull" or "empty" compared to before unless I turn it up pretty loud. maybe that is due to the lower power from my Denon vs the QSC amp from before? Currently I am using the back 2 channel from the Denon to power the outdoor speakers, I guess I could try to biamp the 20s to improve the sound but wouldnt that make it hard to get the center channel level to match?

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I agree with the previous comments on both size and two way Vs three way sound. Keep the KLF 20's. You will regret selling them. Just my guess but I would say that your Dennon is simply not the amp your QSC is/was. Simple solution since the dennon has outs get another QSC or similar quality amp. The excitement you seek should be there regardless of level and the Dennon is not delivering. I think that this is a slight aside but not totally. Your KLF 20 are getting on and you mentioned they were sounding rather dull these days. It would not be out of line at their age to upgrade the components in the crossovers. You should also know that the KLF 20 and 30 were fitted stock with poly tweeter diaphragms which are nowhere near as good as Phenolic diaphragms which are no where near as good as Titanium diaphragms. Bob Crites will sell you new Ti tweeter diaphragms and Klipsch (and only Klipsch) can sell you Titanium mid diaphragms. Upgrading to Ti diaphragms will blow you away as will new and improved crossover parts. I am not saying that you have to do this now but I can assure you that if you do you will have all the reason you will ever need to keep your KLF 20 speakers they are very special.

Don't bother with the fuss of biamping just get a good amp that rocks your speakers like you had before. That jam you get with a really good amp is there no matter what the playback level. Though loud is a lot of fun. A good powerful clean amp can be played a lot louder before it actually starts to sound loud. I hope this helps you to make your decission. Don't sell the KLF 20 because I am only going to have to post to you asking if you are out of your mind. Lets not have that discussion. You know they will do what you want so just care for them and feed them what they want and need and be a happy man. Best regards Moray James.

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Welcome to the forum!

A number of the men here were faced with the WAF of the Khorns and LaScalas. Many of them hung on to them, and many did not. One thing the men who did not had in common is they wish they would have hung on to them. Moray is right. If you have the money for new caps and tweets, you might breath more life into the speakers than they ever had. Denon equipment ranges from cheapo to audiophile, so I don't know about that part. Last time somebody bashed Denon, there was a debate, yada yada. I'm going to whisper that I agree it may be the Denon as it is an AVR and not an amp.

Best of luck, and Merry Christmas!

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You will never be happy with the sound of the Denon for music. Sorry but that's just the way it is. I went through the same thing with my Cornwalls about 10 years ago when I replaced my mid-70s high-watt receiver with an AVR. I ended up getting a small vintage tube amp to use for music and kept the AVR for HT using a Niles switch box to go back and forth.

As far as selling your speakers.....I bought my Cornwalls new long before the kids came along and used them sparingly for almost 20 years (the speakers, not the kids) until they grew up and moved out (the kids, not the speakers). I cranked them up on occasion when nobody else was home but I'm really glad I never sold them (came close a few times). They get much more use now that we're empty nesters.

Good luck!

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My wife is pretty understanding of this addiction, that doesn't however mean she approves of it. Larger speakers unfortunately sound better. If at all possible I would store them away if absolutely necessary. I would do everything in my power NOT to sell any of my speakers. I have a relatively small room 25 ft x18ft. I have in that room a pair of RF 7's, La Scala's , 2 SVS subs, and the rest of the gear.

My kids ( We have 3 little ones) love to listen and jam out as much as I do, they occasionally tell me it's too loud and I turn it down. This is one thing I love and my wife has to accept that. If she made me sell any of my speakers I would make her sell her car. That's it plain and simple. We share everything but my speakers are MINE. She only appreciates them when we go some where else and hear music or watch movies.

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great info everyone I really appreciate it. I am interested in the crossover and or horn upgrades. what kind of cost are we looking at for that? I assume I can dig around on here to find most of the info I would need to get it done.

I may be able to either store these if I do have to get smaller ones for now or the wife is most interested in me getting a smaller sub...though I love the SVS I would rather keep my 20s.

The Denon sounds very good on movies and when turned up loud but seems to lack the power to produce full/clean sound when played quietly. I probably need to mess with the settings and use the setup mic again to see if that helps.

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Bob Crites can sell you new Titanium tweeter diaphragms for $30.00 each plus postage. klipsch can sell you new Titanium mid diaphragms for $156.00 the pair plus postage. Bob Crites can sell you crossover components. You can spend a littl or a lot it's all up to you and how good you want them to sound. I think that Bob's crossovers would be a nice touch and make you happy. If you want to go farther later you can and it is worth every penny you can spend on them. Used an ner pro amps are very inexpensive. Check out some good music shops who will let you buy try and return if you want. Free to try and see what you think. I would suggest an amp which can sink at least 250 watts nto 8 ohms and at least 300 watts into 4 ohms. That should have you cooking and be a cake walk for the amp. One of the members here has recommended that you stay away from Beherenger amps and I trust his judgment. Best regards Moray James.

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Hi ousig,

Welcome to the Forum!

I will submit that a large part of the difference in your audio experience may be speaker placement in the room and/or room acoustics and shape, more than the difference in your amp power or crossover or horns.

I have used various Crown and QSC amps as well as Denon receivers in a variety of venues. The Denon receivers are actually pretty good. You have 100 watts per channel available from your Denon vs 250 from your old QSC. The difference will only be a few db in total loudness. The crossover "may" offer a slight improvement in hf response, but that, too, may not solve your concern.

The 20s are very good speakers. Try placing the speakers on a different wall or different placement in the room just to see how the sound changes. If your current room is more acoustically dead than your previous room, that will make a difference, too. I would do some experimenting before whippin' out the old check book.

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our current room just is a bad shape and has 0 flexibility in regards to moving the speakers around (I wont make that mistake in our next house). So I may just keep these, put them in storage, let my dad use them in their new house for a while or replace them with another smaller set. ideally I keep them near 1 way or another!

anyone know about these? Klipsch WF-35 Icon-W

I imagine any other smaller set wont be as "good" as the 20s but for the way they are used now I would imagine I could get away with a smaller set of Klipsch speakers for now. any other models that would be recommended around that size or like the RF52 or 62?

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have the KLF-30s which appear to be similar in specs to the 20s. My KLF-30s started to sing when I went to a restored Sansui receiver from 1976. It seems like these speaker were made for vintage equipment. And they're so efficient that you don't have to spend much for high power. I'm using a Sansui 881 rated at 60 watts per channel. (Actually tested at 78 watts) and I can hardly move the volume up before they're blasting. It has a warm tube-like sound with deep bass. It does not compare in sound quality to any new equipment that I have. The KLFs are my favorite speakers. But when I first tried to drive them with new a Dennon multimedia receiver, they sounded feeble. From what I've read, the old Sansui transformers are are huge and built with quality that just isn't available anymore. The one caveat is that vintage equipment must be restored by a tech who specializes in that area. (Unless you can do it yourself.)

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I have a set of KLF-20's. I'm also spending an appropriate amount of time finding the right amp. Unfortunately, like you, the speakers are locked into position and it's not the ideal room. Oh well.

So, I'm fussing around with different amps and will hopefully settle on one that I already own, I don't want to buy another amp. And anyway, it seems the pre is making a bigger difference.

But I'm also finding a similar lack of ..uh, everything until I put some wattage into the 20's. Cranked up, they really come alive.

One problem is that I move at a glacial pace. Moray, I haven't made but the most cursory inspection of my 20's, so I can't tell you for sure that they don't need work. But there seemed to be alot of glue along the edges I could see.

After living with the Ti tweeters for awhile now, I'm certain that I'll be putting in a set of Ti mids. The Ti tweets really are nice and are putting the squawker to shame (at least I think so, I don't think this is confirmation bias).

And of course, that will require some Crites XO's. ohh, I'm getting excited already. When I land on a final config (hopefully this year, LOL), I'll sure post it up.

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Take your time it's not a race and good things come to those who wait. I am told that KLF30's really come alive when you ply them with 130 watts or mmore so see if you have any pro amps available locally they are usually very inexpensive and you cn get 200 -500 watts a channel for a song at times and some of those amps sound excellent you just have to try them out. Bonus here is that you will quickly find out if you have any loose baffles. Best regards Moray James.

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I can think of a few reasons to keep the 20's. I bought my 20's from a very nice member who had a gal that said the 20's gotta go.When I picked em' up they had the new speakers beside the 20's, I think RF 25,they looked like kiddy speakers compared to 20's but we all have different needs.I recall feeling kinda sad for the guy but happy for me.

The 20's big advantage is they don't need Mega power or years to assemble gear that works great with them.I have had several combos with 20's and they all sounded great.With a speaker like 7's you could try ten combos and maybe find one that's great.I doubt you could find a better speaker for the used price than 20's considering they can be hooked to an Onkyo and still sound decent.

,

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like you all I think the 20s are great. possible I can keep them depending on what we do for a new TV stand and how much space I have left. worst case I will sell them on here or to my Dad so I know they will be in good hands...or I would get some of the reference line to match my current center.

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  • 4 months later...

Agree totally that KLFs love vintage gear.

I run a Marantz 3800 pre into a 170DC power amp. Source is a Kenwood KD-750 TT with a Sumiko Pearl cartridge.

Good vinyl sounds surreal on my system.

I shake my head when I go into the local "HiFi" store. Their $2800 B&W speakers and Rotel gear sounds like a morgue feels; sterile and cold.

Of course, they call that "accuracy".

Whatever.

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Very nice Marantz setup and very rare amplifier. Your system must sound fantastic.

I had similar experiences at the local audio mart. At first, the salesperson turned up the subwoffer so high, I couldn't even hear the B&W speakers. When I asked him to turn it down, he seemed annoyed. Perhaps covering up the true sound of their system with loud booms from a sub impresses people. I couldn't believe how feeble the sound was from the B&Ws. I haven't heard anything come close to the sound quality of my KLFs driven by vintage equipment. A good tube amplifier might be another way to go.

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