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Upgrade to Reference Speakers or Stick with my Synergys


kietton

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I am looking for advice on combining speaker systems. I have a Denon AVR 2312CI Receiver and recently purchased a pair of F30 Synergy Speakers.

After reading more about Klipsch systems I am having second thoughts of the F30s and thinking about upgrading to the RF 82 II or RF 7 II.

I want to build a 5.2 and maybe a 7.2 theater system. It will be for a medium size room (20 by 12) and will mostly be used for watching movies.

I am thinking of adding RF-62 II as my Center Speakers and pairing the system with two pairs of RF-42 II or RF-52 II Surround Speakers.

Should I stick with the F30s and add RF 42 II center with RF 42 II Surrounds?

Or should I purchase the RF 7 II with the RF 62 II Centers and RF 42 or 52 surrounds?

Or should I purchase the RF 82 II with the RF 62 II Centers and RF 42 or 52 surrounds?

Any advice???

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both systems are nice, i prefer the elegance of the reference system over the synergy and i feel there is some refinement in the ref series that the synergy just doesnt have. Why are you wanting to use a floorstander as your center when the centers are available and designed to be a center? I know you could use a floorstander, most choose to do that when a center is unavailable especially when building an older gen speaker setup.

If you purchase the rf-7 II you get the rc-64 center because they are matched. The choice i suppose comes down to money, space and power. I wouldnt power 7's with an avr IMO. If you do want to upgrade, its kind of a lateral move to 82's but for the better as you can buy all reference.

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the tweeters in the rc-64 and rc-62 are different sizes and dont make them match as well. The rule of thumb is to always get the biggest center you can. To further refine that rule is to get the biggest one you can that matches your towers. This matching to be more precise is called Timbre Matching. This is the act where you want to tonally match your speakers so they sound fluid together. Different size tweeters, types of drivers and sizes and crossovers all play a part in the timbre matching process. Speaker design system to work perfectly with eachother and sometimes along the way, you can find a different model from a different series from a different year works welll with something brand new. Timbre matching comes into play with speakers that are full range (generally and mostly with a dedicated tweeter and/or a midrange) because the human ear is sensitive to freqeuncy differences in the higher ranges. Subwoofers are subject to timbre matching as well all except at that low range, the human ear isnt very discerning (as i was enlightened by another forum member who corrected me in the past) and isnt considered a part of your system that must be timbre matched.

Long story short, you would want to match the rf-82 II's with the rc-62 II because of timbre matching and it will create a fluid sound between speakers. The rc-62 will have plenty of output and well as the rf-82's. You really cant go wrong with 7's or 82's and i am quite partial to both of the lines as each has theirs pros and cons to me.

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So would my current AVR (Denon 2312CI) be able to run a pair of RF 82 II along with a RC 62II?

dont get me wrong, your avr could run 7's or 82's but its really not the best scenario to run 7's on an avr since it has impedence dips far below what your avr could most likely handle. Even with 82's, the best performance could and would come from an outboard amp. But, the trick to help your receiver out and to have things sound the best is to put your frequnecy filter to about 60-80hz and have all of the low stuff go to your sub. By preventing your speakers from receiving full range power to the depth of what they can produce, you are preventing the large impedence dips that can occur when producing low freqs as they require far more power than the upper ranges require.

Receivers have a lot of shortcommings in the power department when you compare it to a power amp and pre/pro combo but a quality receiver can last years and years and bring much joy their owners. Klipsch is very sensitive so it doesnt take make power to get good volumes out of them which really makes them great speakers for a quality receiver. Klipschs are known for showing flaws in your system like bad signal or power quality so its important to have quality interconnects and components which in your case, a denon os for the most part considered a quality receiver.

this is just my .02 for you on what i would do in your position. At the end of the day, it comes down to budget and doing things the right way.

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Thanks for all the info.

Let me ask you a few more questions.

Are the RF 7II that much better than the RF 82 II?

If I purchase a pair of RF 82 II, would I still need to purchase a sub? How about the RF 7 II?

I am trying to keep the budget under $2000 but can go as high as $4500?

Keep in mind this is for a 19 by 12 room (medium size?) with a 10 feet ceiling.

And for 5.1 or 5.2, what surround speakers are best for my living room? RS 42 II or RS 41 II?

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i can only speaker for the older gen 7's when i say this but i am sure the new 7's are similar. They have a very large soundstage which is great for movies. Their downfall IMO is the lack of low end bass at normal listening volumes. My listening room is about 20' w by 20' dwith 15' cathedral celing and the system really envelops the room. My room is extremely acoustically challenging because my seating position is dead center in a bass void and my speakers flank too wide and i am really not back far enough. The 7's have that big of a soundstage. The idea of bigger is better isnt always true and is something i have realized in this case. I know that going forward, my listening space will be more designed around my speakers if i do keep them.

The rf-82 II's are extremely versatile speakers and IMO are the best performance/cost ratio for a speaker that klipsch offers and in the audio industry in general. They have great low end bass at normal listening levels and are no where near as picky as the rf-7's are when it comes to placement.

Vanns has a great deal on the rf-82 setup and the subwoofer is free. I think this would be a great start.

Vanns.com rf-82 II setup for 2600
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/bundles/542638174/klipsch-rf82-ii-black?i_c=CP-101111-klipschFreeSubBundle

If you want to take things a step further there is one more thing you can do. Your denon is good but you can do better. If you can return it, do so. If you cant return it you could sell it. It doesnt have multichannel pre amp out so you can just add what you could. If you wanted to up the quality of your power and really bring your system alive, you can get a preamp/processor and power amp combo.

This amp below is what i have and it is amazing, i really have come to adore it over the last week, far more than my emotiva xpa-5. You can also buy the marantz sr5005 from outlaw audio and only pay $1300 for the combo. I have an Emotiva UMC-1 processor and i have also come to like it alot because of its functionality despite some its issues, it has come a long way, you can get them on clearence for $499 from www.emotiva.com. Also, with that amp, it is 7 channels but you can biamp your rf-82's and use all the channels up :)
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/7125.html

The power amp and processor combo is a huge step up from an avr and with a system like the the one above, your speakers will benefit as will you from that extra power on hand. I know it maxes out the budget a bit but knowing what i know now, i would be very unhappy if i just had a receiver as the heart of my system and no power amp.

Also to note, that klipsch sub isnt bad in that package, you could always sell it and recoup a good amount and dump it into a more beastly sub and with any funds left over, further maxing your budget, you could buy a second identical one and really thump!

Again, just my .02 You have given me alot to play with. I hope others chime in as well, its good to get some varying opinion on things. I try to keep an unbiased view on things and just bring out my experience when i suggest things

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Just purchased the RF82II bundle (RF82II, RC62II, RS-52II). I'm trying to match the best AMP for these speakers. I currently have a Denon AVR 2312CI but might be looking to upgrade to the 3312.

My question is can I just run the RF82II with an AMP and all the other speakers with my current receiver?

Or should I run all my speakers through the AMP?

I am currently looking at the XPA-5 or the Outlaw 7125. Any other suggestions?

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I was about to make my purchase of the RF82II system but noticed the same bundle for the RF35s were cheaper. I know they have older technology but they are also $700 cheaper. What do you think?

I love my RFf35's centered by a RC64. I have not heard the rf7's or 82's though so it mite be just my ignorance.....hehehe

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there is no avr out there that will perform better than a power amp. Plus, i dont like yamaha receivers and are more often than not the worst offender in poor power performance versus stated rated power.

You dont really have an issue, things will work for you fine. There are just a few excellent perks to an outboard amp.

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I'm a complete novice when it comes to audio. What do you mean when you say "get a preamp/processor and power amp combo? Is that an additional 2 or 3 more components on top of my AVR?

They're used IN PLACE of your AVR. All the controls are in one box (the pre-pro) and the amps are seperate.

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I'm a complete novice when it comes to audio. What do you mean when you say "get a preamp/processor and power amp combo? Is that an additional 2 or 3 more components on top of my AVR?

they are components that have a more specific purpose and are better at what they do. Think of an avr as a swiss army knife, it has tons of options and will get you buy. Separates like a power amp and processor are more like individual knives and scissors, they do better jobs because they have 1 purpose. You always have 1 preamp/processor and atleast 1 amp. You can have a power amp with 1 channel or multiple channels. You could have a prepro with 7 separate amps for 7 channels of audio or you can have 1 seven channel amp to power them all. Your avr is probably 1/3 the weight of my stand alone power amp, my avr alone is most likely 3/4 the weight of your avr. You can tell alot about audio equipment by the weight a majority of the time. Its a guideline i follow and its generally because the chassis is more sturdy, the power supplies are much beefier, the heatsinks are larger etc.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi.. you seem to be quite knowledgable about power.... I am running Klipsch KSP-400's, KSP-300's, C6, S6 pair for rear channel, KSW-300 sub... i drive it all with a Denon AVR-5308. Sounds great very loud... I would like to upgrade to get all HDMI connectors etc in the amp. I looked up the Emotiva amps and they are so inexpensive... I see you are using one. Are theses good sounding amps over my AVR? Would a power/pre setup with all new HDMI technology be the way to go in your opinion?

My room is small 16 x 20 with very high ceilings...

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