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Sunfire HRS subs?


ousig

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hey all

I currently have the KLF20s as mains and a big SVS subwoofer (PB12-NSD). I have had the KLFs for many years and want to hold onto them if at all possible but the size of those and the SVS sub is too much for the wife. so I need to downsize

A local dealer has the sunfire subs and the size is amazing but so far the sound just isnt there - I picked up the HRS10 for now. Of course it is hard to compare because I am used to the big sound from the BIG ported SVS and the sunfire is only a 12 inch cube but with a 10 inch driver and a 1000 watt amp! I would think it would push out some big bass

I still need to tweak the settings some and I am sure it needs to break in so it may work out good. the sub itself looks beautiful but I need more sound at this point.

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FWIW, you just can't expect a small sealed subwoofer to keep up with a much larger vented subwoofer for deep bass. Even SVS's own SB13+ is handily outperformed in total output capability by the less costly PB12-NSD when you're talking deep bass (20Hz-32Hz). As far as the HRS10, I don't have much data, but what I do know is that for output capability, even the much costlier Sunfire True EQ 10 is outgunned by your PB12 in terms of output capability.

SVS PB12-NSD

http://www.avtalk.co.uk/showthread.php?s=a4612bfc6ac3c0dd9f6d8cc583168598&t=20780

Sunfire True Sub EQ 10"

http://www.avtalk.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18483

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any Klipsch sub ($800 or less) that would match the SVS output BUT be a bit smaller?

Unfortunately, it's just not really possible to have a sub that is significantly smaller while retaining the powerful low end output and not seeing the cost jump accordingly. A large vented box is a very efficient animal as you approach its tuning point. To overcome that, you need lots of power and a very robust driver.In terms of raw SPL, to give you some idea, it would take something like a JL Fathom F113 ($3700) to match the output of the older PB12-NSD at 16-25Hz.

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using the attic for the "box"? we have a 2 story and the living room/play room/music/theater/everything room is downstairs. What is the best way for me to really check the output differences over a variety of frequencies? I was thinking get the SPL meter from radio shack and some sort of test CD (but what one) then I can put my SVS back in the corner and the sunfire on top and swap back and forth.

my ears are saying it isnt near as loud when the volume is not up very high but I want to make sure my eyes arent telling my ears that - since the sunfire is so small.

when I ran the auto calibration on my Denon with the mic it put the sub at -4db but too me that was way too low unless I had it cranked up real loud. The KLF20s are so efficient I dont have to turn up the Denon very loud to have it plenty loud for "normal" volumes. In order for the sunfire to keep up I had to turn it up to +6db and the volume level on the back to right about half.

because I dont have a dedicated theater room I dont need super loud/shaking bass (I have my car for that for now :)) But I want something powerfull enough to sound solid when volumes are low and keep up with my KLFs or possible smaller RF62s in the future when I can crank it up

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last night I brought in my SVS and put it back in the corner and put the Sunfire on top of it then played music and watched some movies while switching back and forth between the 2. I dont have an SPL meter yet so I cant say exactly how much the difference was but basically when the overall volume was up pretty high - KLFs were blasting beautifully [H] the Sunfire was hitting very hard, plenty low and filling in just fine. I could feel it in the couch and "things" were shaking around just like with the SVS.

here are the differences - that basically all of you have said but I thought I would say. at lower listening volumes the Sunfire does not fill in near as good as the SVS UNLESS I put the front speakers to LARGE and run both the LFE AND front/main bass to the Sunfire. If I run the KLFs as small the overall bass does not seem to be enough unless I am in some specific areas of the room. But not really the very low bass, more the 40 - 70hz range. It doesnt make since because I thought the Sunfire would be deficient in the low bass if anything at low volumes...

So what do you all think about if I keep my mains as large to basically help out the Sunfire (if I plan on keeping it)? Obviously it was still making low bass but just not the "punch or feel" w/o the mains playing along. But if I do this with the SVS the overall bass is almost worse, so I have always ran the KLFs as small with it...just trying to figure out why this would be since I am running both subs in the exact same spot.

I guess my settings may be a bit off. when I ran the auto calibration from the Denon with the sunfire it set the fronts and center both to large. Would that setting still send the full bass to the sub also or would it only send the LFE signal when listing to movies and when in regular stereo the sub wouldnt get much signal?

part of me wants to get a new sub because it is fun and this one is much smaller/easier to live with. But maybe I need to accept the SVS is just a better overall sub for what I need and I may have to change the KLFs out for the smaller RF62s to get the wife off my back!

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If I run the KLFs as small the overall bass does not seem to be enough unless I am in some specific areas of the room. But not really the very low bass, more the 40 - 70hz range. It doesnt make since because I thought the Sunfire would be deficient in the low bass if anything at low volumes...

What is the crossover on the Sunfire set to? That could cause such a problem.

So what do you all think about if I keep my mains as large to basically help out the Sunfire (if I plan on keeping it)?

If it sounds good to you, that's all that matters. Just be mindful of the volume so that you don't damage your KLF-20s with a high power, very low frequency transient.

But if I do this with the SVS the overall bass is almost worse, so I have always ran the KLFs as small with it...just trying to figure out why this would be since I am running both subs in the exact same spot.

Could be a few issues, although phase immediately comes to mind; it isn't uncommon to have a difficult time integrating a subwoofer with floorstanding speakers set to large. If you tried to send LFE to both the SVS and your KLFs, that could produce too much bass as well.

I guess my settings may be a bit off. when I ran the auto calibration from the Denon with the sunfire it set the fronts and center both to large. Would that setting still send the full bass to the sub also or would it only send the LFE signal when listing to movies and when in regular stereo the sub wouldnt get much signal?

When your mains/center are set to large, they will receive a full range signal and the bass content of those channels will not be rerouted to your sub.

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1) I have it at bypass along with the SVS because I was using the Denon's crossover set at 80HZ...but of course this only happens when I have the fronts at small...so just had a thought... if I have the fronts as large AND the subs crossovers at bypass then the subs are basically playing their full range.

2) I have no worries about the KLFs, they can handle whatever you throw at them basically

3) it seems that with the KLFs at large and the subs crossovers not set correctly (I will fix this tonight if I have the mains as large) the bass from the SVS and KLFs cancel out more than with the Sunfire playing.

4) well when I had it like this the subs were both playing bass even when just listening to music/regular TV where I assume there is not an LFE signal being processed. If that is the case I guess the Denon simply sends regular bass signals out of the LFE output like it would any full range output? My Denon has the option when the fronts are set to large to not only send the LFE signal to the sub but also the bass from the main speakers. my thought the whole time was this would be a good option to add more overall bass to the room as long as the KLFs didnt cancel the bass from one of the subs. Another job for the SPL meter.

I think I got myself all confused with all of the possible settings and need to take a few steps back. Is the most common setup for everyone to have all speakers to small regardless of their bass handling characteristics?

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Is the most common setup for everyone to have all speakers to small regardless of their bass handling characteristics?

Yes; that is the THX guideline in any case.

If that is the case I guess the Denon simply sends regular bass signals out of the LFE output like it would any full range output?

It's not out of the realm of possibility. Just depends on on how the Denon wants to process it.
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ok I may call the Denon tech support to confirm how it handles the bass output through the LFE connection when not using a format that has the LFE broken out (regular radio/TV). I am completely confused as to why the Sunfire has such less sound when listening at low volumes vs the SVS - but it is much closer to the same when a real LFE signal is output and the fronts are set to large and the Denon outputs the LFE + main bass

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to update I tried the Sunfire HRS12 and knew right then it was what I needed. It has the same 1000 watt amp as the 10 but obviously a larger woofer and very slightly larger box but the output is much better. it is exactly what I want a low volumes either on a movie (with true .1 output) or regular music on stereo. it absolutely sound great playing loud and it looks great also.

all I can figure on the HRS10 is either there may have been something wrong with it or the 12 is just that much better. I will get some readings soon and ost them

thanks for the help guys

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  • 3 weeks later...

I have not made any "technical" measurements" but I rely on my ears and I am very happy. I ended up with the HRS12 and it has more than enough bass at all levels of volumes. the SVS for sure will have more total output in very low frequencies (30hz and below) but to me the Sunfire sounds much better. and very rarely do I get the chance to play it loud enough on low bass tracks to notice the difference. It is very clean and fast sounding on music and movies...I always thought that was a random thing to read when looking at subwoofers but it is plain as day now going from the big SVS to the small and very powerful Sunfire.

if space was not a problem I probably would not have gotten rid of the SVS but I am not complaining anymore. Even my wife is impressed with the sound of the Sunfire.

So long story short the HRS10 or even the HRS8 would be enough for most spaces but I love loud/clean music so I wanted more. the 12 inch is working very well. The price of the HRS line is nearly half of the next up line. even the dealer I bought it from said they rarely sell the higher priced line - if anything just 2 of the HRS subs.

SVS is a great brand but if you need to save space I really do recommend Sunfire if you have a dealer nearby. let me know if you have any more questions.

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