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RF-7 Cherry "A" Stock vs "B" stock


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So, I know the difference between the two with respect to different colors and thats not what this post is about. My question is this, if these are a veneer and not "hardwood" then why would the "Bad" veneers even make it through Quality Control to be used to begin with? Why would this veneer be used and all of the effort put into making the speaker, only to have it later rejected? Im no wood worker and do not know how things work in this regard. Just curious.

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It's not a matter of "bad", it is just less than the normal standards.Why does anything not perfect make it through qc? humans are not perfect.

Actually, with respect to my original question, it is a matter of bad. Your example implies that all manufacturers have samples that make it through qc that eventually do not pass muster, which is probabaly true. I can see a manufacturer, like Apple for example, that makes millions of one model and has an unnacceptable rate somewhere in the 2-3% range being left with bad units. They do not sell these, although there are probably many many more bad units produced by apple then by Klipsch, when comparing acceptable vs unacceptable on an apples to oranges scale. Klipsch does not produce anything anywhere near the millions of units that apple produces, of say, an iPod. So, by your logic, although Klipsch produces way less of any given product then again, say apple, it makes so many bad ones due to human error that it is forced to sell them as "b" stock? That seems like a pretty high failure rate to me and one that should perhaps be looked into. The question was why do so many bad units make it through the initial qc. "so many" being the operative words here. Not, why does a small handful? That would be human error. This seems much larger than that. I've never seen a "b" model ford on the lot or a "b" model emotiva amp, if you want to look at a smaller volume manufacturer. This was an observation meant to drive discussion.

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A bad Apple will fail...

The Klipsch are hand made, the Apple products... mostly not

The differences in the veneer usually has to do with the coloring, the grain patterns, etc., but in no way changes how the speakers actually work. The sound would be the same from an "A" and "B". For some, small variations like that don't matter and they end up getting them at lower cost, while realizing the same high quality performance.

Bruce

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A bad Apple will fail...

The Klipsch are hand made, the Apple products... mostly not

The differences in the veneer usually has to do with the coloring, the grain patterns, etc., but in no way changes how the speakers actually work. The sound would be the same from an "A" and "B". For some, small variations like that don't matter and they end up getting them at lower cost, while realizing the same high quality performance.

Bruce

Bruce, I understand that the color or dis-coloration, as it may be, has nothing to do with the speakers performance. While I appreciate your input on the color topic (the bulk of your response was dealing with this), if you read my post than you should know that this was not the question at all. But thanks for your perspective :) Also, it should be pointed out that most Apple products are in fact "hand made". While the processor, board, ram, display may not be hand made, the final production most definitely is. This would be on par with a "hand made" Klipsch product. The MDF board used in a lot of Klipsch, the vinyl "veneer" used on a lot of Klipsch, the cerametallic cones, the plastic horns, the speaker grills, speaker grill cloth, feet, badges, port, etc., are not all hand made. They may be pieced together by "hand" in final production but how do Apple products differ than, in this respect? And yes, a bad Apple will fail but so will a bad Klipsch. I guess Im missing the point on that one, too.

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So, I know the difference between the two with respect to different colors and thats not what this post is about. My question is this, if these are a veneer and not "hardwood" then why would the "Bad" veneers even make it through Quality Control to be used to begin with? Why would this veneer be used and all of the effort put into making the speaker, only to have it later rejected? Im no wood worker and do not know how things work in this regard. Just curious.

I'm pretty sure the speakers were already built when they realized the wood veneer was not the exact match they wanted. I'm sure a deal was made with the vendor and they decided to move forward and move them at a discounted I.E. B stock price instead of waiting for the right veneer. They didnt make it thru quality control. I'm pretty sure they decided to run with what they had.
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Im no wood worker and do not know how things work in this regard. Just curious.

This could be part of the problem, Bruce and others may be right. This is what happens, many here have been to the plant to see this in person, I will post a pic of the assembly line in the next post. Many speakers are made before the final finish is put on, when this happens is when you see the real color. Here are mine being sprayed clear, this is Walnut Cornwalls, this is a pic from Klipsch.

One other thing which i have NO idea if Klipsch does this but with some companies some of the stock is sold to vendors as "B" stock just to move more product even if at a lower price, cashflow.

post-11804-13819688693284_thumb.jpg

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This is the plant assembly line, this is a pic of just part of it, it's really long. They do "runs" a run of black then a run of each of the other colors until the have the stock they want or what's needed, this day it was black for this model.

post-11804-13819688694268_thumb.jpg

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This is how Heritage speakers are made, my Cornwall lll's from 2006, Klipsch took these for me as the speakers were being built.

Many people went to what Klipsch calls a Pilgrimage, it's usually every year, we tour the plant, they put on a all day outside concert that ends later that night 4 to 6 different bands.

Later one night at a pilgrimage in 2006 they picked names to win prizes from headphones to t shirts, hats all the way up to speakers which cost thousands.

The first big drawing was for a pair of RF-7's, later that evening my name was picked, I won a pair of Cornwall lll's and even got to pick what color I wanted. As they were being built they took pic's and gave me a CD with the pic's and a certificate signed by everyone who worked on the speakers. Very cool, when my name was picked i was in shock and still find it hard to believe.

This is the pic's of them being made. [Y]

http://www.cyclonecj.com/dtel/Dtelcorns-small/index.html

Pic's of some of the concert in 2011

http://s1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee458/dtel2/Hope%202011/

Pilgramage thread from 2011,

http://community.klipsch.com/forums/t/150210.aspx?PageIndex=1

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if these are a veneer and not "hardwood" then why would the "Bad" veneers even make it through Quality Control to be used to begin with?

The veneer is a real hardwood layer on the outside, except for the cheaper models that are covered in some kind of artificial wood grain made of some kind of plastic, vinyl kind of stuff. ?

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I called klipsch prior to purchasing. The reason they gave me was that the veneer came from China and that sending it back was not an option financially. So they chose to make a "b" stock run. They could have been lying to me.... But that's the reason they gave me.

That makes sense, talking with the plant mgr a few years ago he said they have at times had problems with consistency with some of their wood vendors, local and others. I would guess consistency is a big problem with wood colors and grains when your dealing with the volume that they need.

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dtel, this is all very helpful information and thanks for sharing the pics. Pretty cool. I do know that the veneers are real wood and I suppose that I made the assumption that they were sprayed somewhere along the line prior to actually being used. Which begged the question "Can't you tell that this isn't right?", I mean even a simple properly sprayed piece of wood held next to it should tell you that much. Suffice to say that the pictures provided and input given by many has explained a lot. Thanks to all who have participated in this thread. I think I have a better understanding now.

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Which begged the question "Can't you tell that this isn't right?", I mean even a simple properly sprayed piece of wood held next to it should tell you that much.

More or less they could see a difference I would think as far as darkness goes, but your really not positive until you put the finish on, oil or clear, grain quality changes but that's always changing it's real wood.

I am NOT an expert on finishing wood for sure, I build everything and left it up to my wife to finish how she likes. But it appears she has given me back the job so I went the easy way. Like on speaker cabinets, I have been using oil, I like the finish and it easy.

It may have been that Klipsch got some wood that was different than what they normally use which really only means it is darker or lighter, I would think the grain is fine, maby different but not defective, same as the color, just a little different than there normal sample.

It was probably much easier and cheaper to just do the run of speakers rather than to ship it back from where it came from ?

When you buy a normal speaker from Klipsch it is probably very close to the color of a pair you could have bought a couple of years earlier, as close as possible. When they have some that end up a little darker or lighter or unusual grain they are just as good, just not as close a match as their sample. They can be sold as B stock with the understanding they may not be a match to their standard sample. just a guess ?

I would rather have the set that is a little different really.

All of this about production is a really just a guess but it could be as simple as that.

I have to say it is really cool to go see the plant and watch everything being built including Pro speakers, unbelievable equipment to do the cutting, then built by hand and finished by hand then tested. You can also see the testing and development area where new designs are worked out and tested in the Anechoic chamber.

We like visiting the Hope plant so much we have probably been back 5-6 times, sounds crazy but many others have done the same thing, not that that makes it normal ! [8-)]

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