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KP 115 Rebuild


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#1 Pete H

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 10:49 AM

I picked up a pair of 115's along with a couple pair of KP250's and it's time to do something with them to get ready for spring. I really like the 250's but they have to get some good bottom end and the 115's suck (there's just no nice way to put it). My question is could a simple driver swap make it work or is this just a really bad ported box. I have no experience with these except for plugging them in and giving them a listen, but the bottom end of my little RP 3's with powered 10's kills the low end of the 115's, they really are bad. I'm all ears.


Pete ........It is what it is! Onkyo 805 and 890, Sansui 8080 and G5500, Sony STRDE997, Carver CT7, 5 Carver M200's, Oppo 983, Sony S7000, S7700, S9000, Behringer 16 Channel Mixer and DCX 2496, QSC DCA1622, RF 7's, RC7,RS7's, RSW15's, RF35's, RP5's and 8's, RC3's, RB5's, RB61's, Cornwall 2's, Split Cornscala's, Velodyne1512

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 01:44 PM


The KP-115 is 50hz box but is very efficient coming in at 101db with 1 watt of power. They are very portable. Xover frequency is 150hz. You could put a longer excursion woofer in the box and get a deeper dig, but most deep digging subwoofers are not as efficient and roll off very fast above 100hz.



#3 Pete H

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 02:55 AM

The KP-115 is 50hz box but is very efficient coming in at 101db with 1 watt of power. They are very portable. Xover frequency is 150hz. You could put a longer excursion woofer in the box and get a deeper dig, but most deep digging subwoofers are not as efficient and roll off very fast above 100hz.

I just can't hear much of anything coming from them, and they are working, but the tops completely overpower them. I took one of them apart last night and was shocked at the amount of foam damping material that was inside the box and the long port length. I'm going to post some picks and play one of the 115's against one of my ported cornscala bass cabinets, but I'm pretty sure that there's not going to be much of a comparison so that comes back to the questions regarding possible issues with the drivers or the crossover or the cabinet.

I totally agree that the specs are pretty good on the box and on paper it should sound better than it does. I do have a few other 15's K34 E, Crites Cast Frame, and Eminence Kappalite 15's.

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  • Grill Off.jpg

Pete ........It is what it is! Onkyo 805 and 890, Sansui 8080 and G5500, Sony STRDE997, Carver CT7, 5 Carver M200's, Oppo 983, Sony S7000, S7700, S9000, Behringer 16 Channel Mixer and DCX 2496, QSC DCA1622, RF 7's, RC7,RS7's, RSW15's, RF35's, RP5's and 8's, RC3's, RB5's, RB61's, Cornwall 2's, Split Cornscala's, Velodyne1512

#4 Pete H

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 02:57 AM

Driver Removed showing damping foam.

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  • Driver Removed.jpg

Pete ........It is what it is! Onkyo 805 and 890, Sansui 8080 and G5500, Sony STRDE997, Carver CT7, 5 Carver M200's, Oppo 983, Sony S7000, S7700, S9000, Behringer 16 Channel Mixer and DCX 2496, QSC DCA1622, RF 7's, RC7,RS7's, RSW15's, RF35's, RP5's and 8's, RC3's, RB5's, RB61's, Cornwall 2's, Split Cornscala's, Velodyne1512

#5 Pete H

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 02:58 AM

Crossover removed

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  • Crossover Removed 1.jpg

Pete ........It is what it is! Onkyo 805 and 890, Sansui 8080 and G5500, Sony STRDE997, Carver CT7, 5 Carver M200's, Oppo 983, Sony S7000, S7700, S9000, Behringer 16 Channel Mixer and DCX 2496, QSC DCA1622, RF 7's, RC7,RS7's, RSW15's, RF35's, RP5's and 8's, RC3's, RB5's, RB61's, Cornwall 2's, Split Cornscala's, Velodyne1512

#6 Pete H

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 03:00 AM

crossover

Just a note on the box; there's only about 3.3 cu' of volume to the box.

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  • Crossover Removed 2.jpg

Pete ........It is what it is! Onkyo 805 and 890, Sansui 8080 and G5500, Sony STRDE997, Carver CT7, 5 Carver M200's, Oppo 983, Sony S7000, S7700, S9000, Behringer 16 Channel Mixer and DCX 2496, QSC DCA1622, RF 7's, RC7,RS7's, RSW15's, RF35's, RP5's and 8's, RC3's, RB5's, RB61's, Cornwall 2's, Split Cornscala's, Velodyne1512

#7 colterphoto1

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 03:21 AM

This could be interesting. I've had a couple of them to the same conclusion. Hope your experiments bring out either a good replacment/ mod for that driver/ cab or point towards a new Klipsch pro mini-sub.
Klipsch-wise: Jubilees in the Gallery Khorns on standby LS (cane grilles, custom DeanG networks, making them some of the sweetest sounding LS on the planet) CW/ KLF-C7 Hearth Room HT forte II home office icon WB 14 bedroom KP682/362 w/ KSM2, KSM12II PA system MCM 4 way restored / K201 - Workshop LSI-BG split x 5 / KP250 outdoor HT KP301 'truck' midi sized PA KP262, KP110, KP172, HIP - extra pro stuff KP600 system being slowly restored RB5II Oak, HOO (cane), HBR, HD reveneered walnut - just laying around

#8 Pete H

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 05:37 AM

This could be interesting. I've had a couple of them to the same conclusion. Hope your experiments bring out either a good replacement/ mod for that driver/ cab or point toward a new Klipsch pro mini-sub.

I knew you would find this thread and I believe the term you used when I purchased these is "muddied" and I would have 2 agree. It seems like they are mismatched to the 250's in regards to output and that there's a problem with the crossover design because the 250's are screaming when the 115's are not pushing out comparative DB's. I'm going to post a picture of the various 15's I have and if we're strictly looking at how stout the drives are the K 48 is a grizzly bear in regards to magnet size and overall weight. I've searched the TS specs on the 48 and found a couple on the forum, but they don't match up so I can't directly compare the data but taking the information I have and plugging it into some basic box calculator programs that I found on line produce completely different ported configurations and cabinet volumes and when I try to back into the 115's box configuration it doesn't ever come up to the ports and volume that they have. Please keep in mind there are volumes of information that I don't have a clue about, but I do know what I hear and with the amount of speakers I have that are known quantities as well as builds that have been run against RF 7's and stock Cornwalls I think I can discern the difference between what sounds right and what doesn't.

I could take the K 48 and stick it in one of the Cornscala bass cabinets (split design) and see how it does, although that will be a real PITA and I would rather ask the question "how does the K 48 compare to other 15" drivers and does it perform in other application" the answer to that question would at least narrow down the possible problems with the 115.

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  • 15 drivers 1.jpg

Pete ........It is what it is! Onkyo 805 and 890, Sansui 8080 and G5500, Sony STRDE997, Carver CT7, 5 Carver M200's, Oppo 983, Sony S7000, S7700, S9000, Behringer 16 Channel Mixer and DCX 2496, QSC DCA1622, RF 7's, RC7,RS7's, RSW15's, RF35's, RP5's and 8's, RC3's, RB5's, RB61's, Cornwall 2's, Split Cornscala's, Velodyne1512

#9 Pete H

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 05:40 AM

Second picture of the 15's and in order from top left going clockwise we have the K48K, the Kappalite, K34E and the Crites CW1526C

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  • 15 drivers 2.jpg

Pete ........It is what it is! Onkyo 805 and 890, Sansui 8080 and G5500, Sony STRDE997, Carver CT7, 5 Carver M200's, Oppo 983, Sony S7000, S7700, S9000, Behringer 16 Channel Mixer and DCX 2496, QSC DCA1622, RF 7's, RC7,RS7's, RSW15's, RF35's, RP5's and 8's, RC3's, RB5's, RB61's, Cornwall 2's, Split Cornscala's, Velodyne1512

#10 colterphoto1

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 10:07 AM

I've seen more than a few of those passive networks completely melted down. Must have been pumping massive amounts of power in attempt to get some low end. Think seriously about bi-amping the setup so you gain much more control, power handling, and driver protection, to say nothing of reducing the fire hazard.

Michael
Klipsch-wise: Jubilees in the Gallery Khorns on standby LS (cane grilles, custom DeanG networks, making them some of the sweetest sounding LS on the planet) CW/ KLF-C7 Hearth Room HT forte II home office icon WB 14 bedroom KP682/362 w/ KSM2, KSM12II PA system MCM 4 way restored / K201 - Workshop LSI-BG split x 5 / KP250 outdoor HT KP301 'truck' midi sized PA KP262, KP110, KP172, HIP - extra pro stuff KP600 system being slowly restored RB5II Oak, HOO (cane), HBR, HD reveneered walnut - just laying around

#11 Pete H

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 10:44 AM

That's part of the big plan but for now I can just take the crossover out of the picture and just feed the 115 from the sub out and through one of my amps while trying to figure out if any gains can be made.


Pete ........It is what it is! Onkyo 805 and 890, Sansui 8080 and G5500, Sony STRDE997, Carver CT7, 5 Carver M200's, Oppo 983, Sony S7000, S7700, S9000, Behringer 16 Channel Mixer and DCX 2496, QSC DCA1622, RF 7's, RC7,RS7's, RSW15's, RF35's, RP5's and 8's, RC3's, RB5's, RB61's, Cornwall 2's, Split Cornscala's, Velodyne1512

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 11:29 AM

I've seen more than a few of those passive networks completely melted down. Must have been pumping massive amounts of power in attempt to get some low end. Think seriously about bi-amping the setup so you gain much more control, power handling, and driver protection, to say nothing of reducing the fire hazard.

Michael


Those caps are electrolytic which break down with use. I wound up switching all my electrolytic's for high voltage 3% film capacitors which were specifically designed for high current (large surface area).



#13 CECAA850

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 12:32 PM

Pete, I think I still have the plans for the bass bins I made for my 250's. They're designed to keep up with the 250's in terms of output. PM me if you like.

Carl


A Harmony One remote runs a............. Pioneer Elite KURO 150FD display. Anthem D2 pre-pro. 4 QSC PLX 1104 amps. Oppo BDP-80 Blu-ray player. Toshiba XA2 HDDVD player. IB sub with 4 Ascendant Audio 18" drivers powered by a Behringer EP-2500. 2 Klipsch Dean G'd RF-7's, 1 Dean G'd RC-7, 2 RS-7's and 2 RB-35's, all protected by a Furman Elite 20-PFi

 

Bedroom 1, Lascalas w/ ALK networks and Crites tweeters, Juicy Music modded Crown D-45, Njoe Tjoeb CD player and an Anthem TLP-1. Tuba 18 sub powered by a Behringer A-500.

 

Bedroom 2, Heresy II's with III upgrade, Carver TFM-15, Carver CT-6 and a Sony CDP C235.

 

 


#14 CECAA850

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 12:41 PM

That's part of the big plan but for now I can just take the crossover out of the picture and just feed the 115 from the sub out and through one of my amps while trying to figure out if any gains can be made.

I'd have done that already.

I'd go easy on the volume to start in case you're bypassing a high pass filter. If you start to crank it, go slow and back it off if you hear anything funny (clanking) or if you're upping the volume and the sub quits getting louder.


A Harmony One remote runs a............. Pioneer Elite KURO 150FD display. Anthem D2 pre-pro. 4 QSC PLX 1104 amps. Oppo BDP-80 Blu-ray player. Toshiba XA2 HDDVD player. IB sub with 4 Ascendant Audio 18" drivers powered by a Behringer EP-2500. 2 Klipsch Dean G'd RF-7's, 1 Dean G'd RC-7, 2 RS-7's and 2 RB-35's, all protected by a Furman Elite 20-PFi

 

Bedroom 1, Lascalas w/ ALK networks and Crites tweeters, Juicy Music modded Crown D-45, Njoe Tjoeb CD player and an Anthem TLP-1. Tuba 18 sub powered by a Behringer A-500.

 

Bedroom 2, Heresy II's with III upgrade, Carver TFM-15, Carver CT-6 and a Sony CDP C235.

 

 


#15 biglaz

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 02:30 PM

In my experience the crossover is the primary culprit. Give it a separate amp and active xover.
Robert L Lazrovitch

#16 Pete H

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 02:33 AM

That's part of the big plan but for now I can just take the crossover out of the picture and just feed the 115 from the sub out and through one of my amps while trying to figure out if any gains can be made.

I'd have done that already.

I'd go easy on the volume to start in case you're bypassing a high pass filter. If you start to crank it, go slow and back it off if you hear anything funny (clanking) or if you're upping the volume and the sub quits getting louder.

I'm going to attempt to take some time this evening and give it a run to see what happens; I've just been too busy at work and was out of the country for the last week.
Pete ........It is what it is! Onkyo 805 and 890, Sansui 8080 and G5500, Sony STRDE997, Carver CT7, 5 Carver M200's, Oppo 983, Sony S7000, S7700, S9000, Behringer 16 Channel Mixer and DCX 2496, QSC DCA1622, RF 7's, RC7,RS7's, RSW15's, RF35's, RP5's and 8's, RC3's, RB5's, RB61's, Cornwall 2's, Split Cornscala's, Velodyne1512

#17 CECAA850

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 05:43 PM

Wellllll????


A Harmony One remote runs a............. Pioneer Elite KURO 150FD display. Anthem D2 pre-pro. 4 QSC PLX 1104 amps. Oppo BDP-80 Blu-ray player. Toshiba XA2 HDDVD player. IB sub with 4 Ascendant Audio 18" drivers powered by a Behringer EP-2500. 2 Klipsch Dean G'd RF-7's, 1 Dean G'd RC-7, 2 RS-7's and 2 RB-35's, all protected by a Furman Elite 20-PFi

 

Bedroom 1, Lascalas w/ ALK networks and Crites tweeters, Juicy Music modded Crown D-45, Njoe Tjoeb CD player and an Anthem TLP-1. Tuba 18 sub powered by a Behringer A-500.

 

Bedroom 2, Heresy II's with III upgrade, Carver TFM-15, Carver CT-6 and a Sony CDP C235.

 

 


#18 Pete H

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 02:49 AM

Wellllll????

Well I had a brake hang up on the truck and a sump pump fail in a rainstorm............so the 115 doesn't sound any different yet.[:P]
Pete ........It is what it is! Onkyo 805 and 890, Sansui 8080 and G5500, Sony STRDE997, Carver CT7, 5 Carver M200's, Oppo 983, Sony S7000, S7700, S9000, Behringer 16 Channel Mixer and DCX 2496, QSC DCA1622, RF 7's, RC7,RS7's, RSW15's, RF35's, RP5's and 8's, RC3's, RB5's, RB61's, Cornwall 2's, Split Cornscala's, Velodyne1512

#19 CECAA850

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 04:11 AM

Life does get in the way of audio at times, I hear ya. Hopefully this weekend will be a little kinder to you.


A Harmony One remote runs a............. Pioneer Elite KURO 150FD display. Anthem D2 pre-pro. 4 QSC PLX 1104 amps. Oppo BDP-80 Blu-ray player. Toshiba XA2 HDDVD player. IB sub with 4 Ascendant Audio 18" drivers powered by a Behringer EP-2500. 2 Klipsch Dean G'd RF-7's, 1 Dean G'd RC-7, 2 RS-7's and 2 RB-35's, all protected by a Furman Elite 20-PFi

 

Bedroom 1, Lascalas w/ ALK networks and Crites tweeters, Juicy Music modded Crown D-45, Njoe Tjoeb CD player and an Anthem TLP-1. Tuba 18 sub powered by a Behringer A-500.

 

Bedroom 2, Heresy II's with III upgrade, Carver TFM-15, Carver CT-6 and a Sony CDP C235.

 

 


#20 Pete H

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 01:19 PM

Hopefully this weekend will be a little kinder to you.

In a very weird way it was; upon finishing the replacement of the sump pump yesterday after work and joking with Denise about wanting to retire in a home that didn't have any pumps, as I was pumping off excess pool water and joking about the pump in the septic tank (Joke was on me), I noticed that the breaker was tripped for the septic pump and pulled the lid to find the tank ready to overflow and the pump not working. When the coupling let loose that was holding back a 150' line filled with magical fluid (I was really close to the action) as I was trying to work the pump from the topside to work loose any debris that might have been trapped..................................are you getting the ugly picture................the late afternoon went to shi^ from there. On a positive note, I could have discovered the problem with this pump when the sewage backed up into the home so how's that for the "Glass is half full" theory?

The other bright note is that I don't have to call plumbers to fix this shi^ (so to speak) so I spent a whopping $20.00 in parts to fix one pump and $0.00 to fix the other one, but taking the expression "I've really gotten myself into some shi^ this time" to a whole new level..........................PRICELESS!

I will end this with Shi^ Happens.[:P] or I've got a really shitt^ taste in my mouth, or you can just make up your own. God, that was like a therapy session, and I feel much better now.


Pete ........It is what it is! Onkyo 805 and 890, Sansui 8080 and G5500, Sony STRDE997, Carver CT7, 5 Carver M200's, Oppo 983, Sony S7000, S7700, S9000, Behringer 16 Channel Mixer and DCX 2496, QSC DCA1622, RF 7's, RC7,RS7's, RSW15's, RF35's, RP5's and 8's, RC3's, RB5's, RB61's, Cornwall 2's, Split Cornscala's, Velodyne1512