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Horn Types, how do they sound?


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I will ppst two pictures of a couple of old Elecrtovoice Cd horns which are about the same size but a little different I am curious to hear from members who have heard both types of horns and not necessarily these two and would like to know how they compare. One is a diffraction horn one is not. Thanks and lets see if I can get the pictures to postt. Best regards Moray James.

PS: these are EV HP9040 horns designed for one inch drivers.

post-46582-13819689928302_thumb.jpg

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That is not an HR9040, it is an HR6040 (or an HR4020). They have a 1.29" throat opening. EV sold an adaptor for use with a 1" (which you would not do as their 1" driver at the time was only rated to 800hz, not the 400hz of the horn).

This is an HR9040:

1079534823.jpg

In general, the HR series of horns sound better than the HP series of horns.

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Hey Dennis: I was under the belief that what you have posted was the HR9040A I will double check to see if I can find any EV data. Sorry if I am in error. Thanks for the info on how these sound that's what I am trying to find out. So is the horn that you posted considered to be a diffraction horn? Both are CD horns but the one I posted on top in the truck is not a diffraction horn is it? Thanks for the education. Best regards Moray James.

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That is not an HR9040, it is an HR6040 (or an HR4020). They have a 1.29" throat opening. EV sold an adaptor for use with a 1" (which you would not do as their 1" driver at the time was only rated to 800hz, not the 400hz of the horn).

This is an HR9040:

1079534823.jpg

In general, the HR series of horns sound better than the HP series of horns.

I love the spilt Altec bins. I always wondered how MWMs would work if you turned them up like that. You would have to make a stand for the cabinets to be on end, but definately doable.

Bruce

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I don't know what the comparative sound is of these diffraction style CD horns is. The original CD horns, the HR series of EV, are a classic design that has withstood the test of time in terms of sonic performance, though. They are large, and difficult to mount into any kind of standard format (e.g., rectangular flat faced openings). On the other hand, they sound fabulous (to my ear anyway).


Here's something worth looking at: 'Measurements performed on 16 horns' by Jean-Michel Le Cleac 'h. Here is the name of the pdf, google it and you will find a few locations from which to download. In this series of measurements, the very latest enthusiast horns are tested with a variety of drivers... among these is an HR6040 (I think this is actually an 'A' series, as in HR6040A, and not the first production HR6040- I don't see evidence of the mating of the top and bottom halves as the first production models were done). This is tested with an Altec 288-8K. This combination appears to hold up quite well in the stack up of results: considering the level of main reflection and diffraction, the 16 horn/driver combos were sorted into 5 classes, 1 being best, 5 being worst. The HR6040/288 was ranked in the number 2 group. Not bad for a 35 year old design.

None of the horn/driver combinations in this series contained a diffraction design, though.

-M

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I love the spilt Altec bins. I always wondered how MWMs would work if you turned them up like that. You would have to make a stand for the cabinets to be on end, but definately doable.

Bruce

I thought about that also, might have to try it one day outside with the workshop set, it would save alot of floor space.

I would think for inside use you don't really need that kind of width the MWM gives you laying flat ?

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This photogragh is I think a little deceptive in its distortion and perhaps part of my confussion. This does not look to be a diffraction horn yet in most of the other pictures it would seem that both the HR9040 and the HR9040A are bot diffraction horns. I that a correct assumption? Thanks for the help Best regards Moray James.

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OK, the photo of the horn in the truck is of an HR4020 (this photo comes up on Google when you search for HR9040).

The slot in the HR9040 is very wide and not very deep, and compared to the narrow and deep slot on the HP9040 it does much less damage to the sound.

I have a very bad phone-camera shot of an EV curved horn stack from Carver Hawkeye Arena (taken before the re-model), if anyone wants it they should send me their e-mail address.

PS

A little foam in the slot reduces the HOM quite a bit.

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AFAIK, the original Keele-based HR series from the 1970's are not diffraction horns at all. This horn family is a mergence of three flares: a hypex throat, a conical central expansion, and a rapidly flaring bell mouth. I have always thought that this family of horns could probably have been improved by using a smoothing polynomial to connect the hypex throat to the flared mouth; you'd have a mild deviation away from conical expansion, but you'd do away with the reasonably abrupt changes of expansion rate. Nature abhors discontinuities. More or less, the horn families that came after this design from competing manufacturers strove to find ways around the EV patent, while acheiving the same directivity performance. Diffraction slot designs were yet another way to try to do this.

To my understanding, diffraction horns generally have a very narrow slot in one plane (uusually the vertical plane) and a flaring of one sort or another in the orthogonal plane.

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Thanks Horatio for the interestinginformation. I was also thinking the HR9040 and HR9040A were not diffraction horns but the more I read and look at them I get they impression that they are making use of a section which looks like it is acting like a diffraction horn. Perhaps they fall into the grey area inbetween two design types.. I have been trying to figure out without hearing which horn will sound better which is a hard one to do. The HP9040 which is a diffraction horn has great disperssion horizontal and vertical and has excellent pattern control and on paper looks to be the more refined horn. Comments from users seem to suggwest the HR series horn is perhaps a better sounding horn. So go figure.I understand that Diffraction horns can distort at high levels but I am looking at in homemonitoring so that should not be an issue. Have you used any of these?Thaks for your input. Best regards Moray James.

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It is not clear what the OP has in mind in terms of system design so I wil have to guess.

I suspect his crossover point will do better if the horn throat is at least 1.4 inch or preferably a 2 inch throat. There seems to an interest in constant directivity honrs from Electrovoice.

Altough a some of the comments have been luke warm regarding the HP series, let me suggest you give a try. These are 2 inch throated horns originally mated with a DH1a driver. On eBay there are number of HP940 horns (90 deg by 40 deg). They sound fairly good, IMO. What sounds even better are the HP640 horns (60 deg by 40 deg,) Please note that these are narrower and may or may not work well in your room. They are about 28 in wide and 17in deep. I frequently use a pair of HP640 horns (with JBL 2446 drivers) on top of Jubilee-style bass bins and crossed at about 600-700 Hz or so. Again, these are CD horns that frequently show up on the used market.

I think they sound pretty good, but I am biased.

If the OP lives near Connecticut, he is welcome to a 2-week loan of the HP640's. I currently have an extra pair of these.

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Hey Tom: thank you very much for your extremely kind offer. I am sorry to say that I am a very long way away from you here in Calgary Alberta. I have been looking for a way to get into a large horn to obtain a low crossover point and have good pattern control. I cannot afford a horn like the K402 so I started to look toward other large quality horns which are available and the EV seem to stand out. I have heard many comments that with horns bigger is better. I am looking to be monitoring in moderate sized rooms for the foreseeable future sitting perhaps 12 - 15 feet back from the speakers. I would like to shoot for a crossover point of 300 - 400 Hz if that is possible. Since my monitering levels will beunder 100 -105db most of the time I can't see having issues if I give up some output to gain extension. I am also wondering about building a large conical horn. By the time I factor shipping and parts buying or building work out about the same but buying used means I have a speaker not not a project. Thanks again Tom for your generous offer it is much appreciated. Best regards Moray James.

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Yes, Calgary would be a bit of a drive.

A couple of comments. Don't give up on the eBay route of EV horns. As I said, the HPxxx series horns come up quite often.

As I have found out, if you are aiming for a two-way system, your choices become limited. If you are aiming for a cross over in the 300-400 Hz region, your choices become very limited.

It is difficult to find a horn-driver-diaphragm that can "do it all" over an extended bandwidth. As with most things in life, it becomes an issue of prioritizing the various compromises and tradeoffs

Anyhow, good luck,

-Tom

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