Cornwalls IIIs or Reference Series for a 5.1 system ?

[ddafoe]

Hi,

I just recently entered the Klipsch world by purchasing a used pair of Cornwall IIIs (Audiogon) and a pair of Forte IIs (Craigs List). We are currently building a room in our basement for audio/video and I've yet to be able to use the CWIIIs and I've only played maybe an hour of music through the Fortes. I plan to setup two systems in the room where one is stereo only and one is a 5.1 system. I'm guessing I'll likely sell the Fortes eventually, but I purchased them at a good price and liked them with just a little listening and then jumped on the CWIIIs.

My tentative plan is to buy a pair of RB-81IIs for the fronts (possibly sit them on the CWIIIs), a RC-62II center, and a pair of either RB-51IIs or RS-51IIs for the surrounds.

My room is only 11.5x17 with the speakers (and screen) being on the 11.5 wide wall.

I have a PrimaLuna One integrated that I was going to use with the CWIIIs and then I plan to buy a receiver or cheaper amp+processor combo for the 5.1. But now I wondering if it makes sense to try and use the CWIIIs (and maybe the Fortes) for an integrated system.

So, my questions are:

1) Which will sound better for movies and dialog, Heritage or Reference?

2) What would I mate with the CWIIIs for a center and surrounds: used CWII or used Heresy II or III ? I'm guessing the Heresy III would be the best blend but then I've not heard the tonal difference between a CWII or Heresy II and the CWIII.

3) Is using the ForteII's for the surrounds overkill (plus I may not have the floor space)? How would a reference speaker blend for the surrounds?

4) Would 3 25.5" wide CWs be too much for such a small room from a visual (and maybe sound) perspective? I do plan to place some equipment at the front as well.

I know it will not hurt them, but doesn't it seem kind of 'wrong' running high volume explosions and sound effects through the CWIIIs? Driving a RB-81II hard for movie watching just feels better to me for some reason....

Anyhow, any advice/comments are welcome; thanks!

[dtel]

Welcome [Y]

Reference or Heritage, what's best for movies and dialog, either it's kind of a personal choice, both would work. You have the Cornwall lll's so you know what they sound like, find some RF speakers and see what sound you like better.

Your right the Heresy lll is a perfect match for the Cornwall lll, if you wanted to go that way.

It would be nice to not have two different sets of speakers for HT and 2 CH, what about the Cornwall lll's and a switch box to change them from a 2 ch setup to Ht ? Heresy lll for center and 2 for rears , either way for HT you need a sub.

Or if you have the space use the forte's for rears and a single Heresy lll for a center ? As long as the front 3 are a good match your fine. forte's make fine surrounds, I use 4 forte ll's and a pair of original forte's for a 6.1

I only went heritage because you have C lll's already and they would work great for your 2 Ch and HT, and I was trying to keep the number of speakers in the room as low as possible and still do both setups

Just some ideas

[psg]

Since you already have the CIII, I would not put Reference speakers on top of them (less able Reference speakers to boot). I think Heresy II or II would do fine as center, or better yet another Cornwall. Is the screen acoustically transparent?

[ddafoe]

Yea, a speaker switch box might be a way to go; I think Bryston make a nice one. I was thinking that even if my Tube Integrated has a home theater bypass which it does not, then I would have to use the Tubes to drive the LR while watching movies which isn't ideal. A switch box would allow me to completely separate the two uses.

Thanks

[ddafoe]

Regarding the screen, no it isn't acoustically transparent. That is part of my issue of trying to cram so many speakers into the small room is that everything will have to fit around the screen. At least the Cornwall's are not that tall. I plan to have around 40 to 44" between the bottom of the screen and the floor.

[dtel]

At least the Cornwall's are not that tall. I plan to have around 40 to 44" between the bottom of the screen and the floor

I wouldn't hesitate to lay a Cornwall down sideways for a center channel, I do it with the forte center and I hear no difference with the speaker sideways, with 12' from the TV to the front of the sofa.

[Fish]

If I had Cornwalls setting there I would want to be using them for music and movies.With the right setup you can bypass HT for music listening.

[bigTbarker]

I went from a C7 to a HII to

KP301 to Cornwall II center.I should have went with the Cornwall II

from the start,but noooo now I am just like everybody here on the form,I

have speakers everywhere.Garage,bedrooms,some just sitting.What I am

trying to say is go with the Cornwall III or join the rest of us !!!! LOL

[iwander]

I currently have the setup you are looking at. Cornwall I's for front mains. Heresy I's for center. Laid on side in cabinet below TV. Forte II's in back of the recliners. Energy S10.3 subwoofer. It is the most robust sound we've had. I have the AVR set the speakers to large/full range. Most of the time it's only the Klipsch speakers I hear. The sub kicks in only on the very bottom end. The CW's & Forte's take care of every thing else. I have a Marantz NR-1601 AVR. I use this setup only for movies or DTS cds. The Marantz can do 7.1 but I don't see a need for it. 5.1 sound just fine. I'm still fine tuning the sub for a smoother blend.

For stereo only, I have a Nakamichi SR-4a receiver. It sounds great with the CW's. I did not like the Marantz as much for music.

Tying both systems together is a A/B speaker selector from Monoprice. ID 8231 @ $50. This allows me to send either amp to the CW's. Switching between the amps showed a definite advantage to the NAK. Tighter bass and more detail. Both amps are about 50wpc.

Overall I am very pleased with the sound of the system. I have a great music setup and a kick *** surround system. My room is 15ft wide by 19ft deep that's open to the kitchen. Volume wise, it's just a bit larger than your room.

The only issue I had was WAF. The CW's are large, but that's what gives it the fuller sound. No more satellite speakers for me. My wife agreed only if I stained the CW's darker. Done.

I hope this gives you some idea of what you can achieve with the Cornwalls, Heresy and Fortes. The later versions sound better from what I remember. Save your money for a Heresy center and a good AVR.

[Audible Nectar]

I would run all Heritage for the system, whether 2 or 5 channel use.

I run five Cornwalls in my 5.1 HT. I have the rears on short
coffee tables and crossfiring which places the rear sound field at an
ideal level. The center one is on it's side, which serves as TV stand
for the 55" panel. I also have a two twin 15" JBL bass reinforcement
cabs

I'll just say it. It is AWESOME.

Before completing the
setup I had an Academy center with Chorus as rears, and it was quite
good - but since the speakers are slightly different in build the timbre
matching wasn't exact - but it was close. If I had to use that speaker
set it still would be a really good system. Once I installed all
identical Cornwalls, though, the audio became so perfectly seamless as
to drop the jaw.....TOTALLY "locked in".

Best scenario: All Cornwalls

Next Best: Three Cornwalls across front with Forte rears

Third: Two Corns mains, Heresy center (and I would go with the III version if the Corns are IIIs) and Forte rears.

All can be very good systems.

Look here: http://community.klipsch.com/forums/p/154457/1656247.aspx#1656247

[dtel]

Before completing the

setup I had an Academy center with Chorus as rears, and it was quite

good - but since the speakers are slightly different in build the timbre

matching wasn't exact - but it was close. If I had to use that speaker

set it still would be a really good system. Once I installed all

identical Cornwall's, though, the audio became so perfectly seamless as

to drop the jaw.....TOTALLY "locked in".

Best scenario: All Cornwall's

Next Best: Three Cornwall's across front with Forte rears

Third: Two Corns mains, Heresy center (and I would go with the III version if the Corns are IIIs) and Forte rears.

All can be very good systems.

Exactly right

But when he says "next best" which is closest to your easiest situation the sound with the 3 corns across the front Forte's in the rear, is an extremely impressive HT, you would be very happy, and all you need is 1 more speaker. [Y]

[ddafoe]

That is a good point.

Being I have 4 of 5 now that will sound really good together buying another 5 smaller speakers likely isn't the smartest choice. My wife is already on me some about the size of the Cornwalls though so I can only imagine what she would say about 3 of them across the front. But a Heresy III wouldn't be too bad size wise (or cost wise) as a center and that should be a perfect timbre match.

[psg]

You can even hang it on the wall if you want to have it avove the screen.

[iwander]

I would try the Monoprice a/b speaker selector. $50. Hook up the Prima for music and an AVR for HT.

For movies I switch it to the Marantz. For music I switch it to the Nakamichi. Both connected to the front CW's. The CW's can take whatever you throw at them. They really don't need a high powered AVR.

Save your money and space by going with one setup.

[Mike 585]

I agree with a previous comment to try and avoid two systems, especially in your rather small space. I've use Cornwalls for dual purpose home theatre and music and it worked quite well. For a time, I was forced to put them on the 11' short wall of the room in a 4.1 arrangement with Heresy surrounds. The phamtom center was fine with such a short L to R separation. Later, I was able to rotate and widen the setup and it's as different as night and day.

So, I would advise you to consider setting up on the long wall. You'd need to use a center with the wider spacing (toed-in) but results for both music and movies will be vastly better IME. This approach is well documented here if you do some searching.

Do some simple placement experiments before doing anything in your preparations that lock you into using the short wall.

Best of luck,

Mike

[picky]

ddafoe: Since 2004 I've have an RF-7 based, 7.1 system using all reference speakers and an RSW-15 sub. It's a small room (10.5'w x 19'L x 7'H) and I love the way our system performs with both music and theater input material. I would call the overall installation 95% flawless. However, in 2006 my wife and I took part in the blind testing held at Klipsch Audio headquarters in Indianapolis and we discovered some time later that the speakers we both chose as superior were the Cornwall III as compared to the RF-7's. The Cornwall III's had a more complex, open, and airy quality to them that the RF-7's seems to lack a bit. I truly believe this is attributed to the Cornwall's 3-way configuration as opposed to the RF-7's 2-way design. Don't get me wrong; I love our RF-7's and I do not plan to change a thing in our theater. But, If I had to do it all over again and had slightly more room to work with rather than a 10.5' wide room like we have, plus a slightly-larger budget, I would definitely consider the Cornwall IIIs or even LaScala's over the RF-7s. Although they no longer make it, I would still opt of the RSW-15 sub as it pairs so well with the 3 speakers mentioned. I also own Heresy III's for another (tube) system I have and I love them. They'd couple beautifully with the Cornwall III's or the LaScala's! Best of luck! - Glenn