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Biamping crossover suggestion not diy

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I am looking into biamping, I know to do it right I should have an active crossover. I've been looking around and now I'm looking for opinions.

I was looking at a Rane AC23s, also a DBX 234xs, some suggested Peavey, and Behringer products. First, are these the active crossovers people refer to? If they are does anyone have experiences or recommendations? I know diy is best but I don't wont to do it, thanks for any suggestions or comments..

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If you are doing biamping the Rane AC22 will work for you. I would suggest looking at the Marchand XM9 active crossover.

xm9top_front_20pct.JPG

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Thank you Frank1938, I'm looking for some reviews now. I also came across crossovers by Ashly, which so far have very good reviews.

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You will need to decide between an analog crossover and a digital loudspeaker processor. The digital units have several advantages over analog, including the ability to time align, different crossover slopes and types, and EQs on each output. The analog units are usually cheaper and easier to adjust, with knobs for adjustments. Many folks here use the Behringer digital processor with good results, available for under $300.

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MiniDSP

http://www.minidsp.com/

Starts at USD $99, software plugins are $10

Thread at AV Science Forum:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1281290

MiniDSP Forum at DIY Audio

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/minidsp/

I use 2-2x4's w/ 2.1 Advanced software in a 4-way config. One 2x4 handles Subs and HF - the other for LF and MF. Both are USB powered via rackmount PC. Total cost was $218 for the 2 kits and one plugin.

post-53023-13819691866474_thumb.jpg

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I was looking at a Rane AC23s, also a DBX 234xs, some suggested Peavey, and Behringer products. First, are these the active crossovers people refer to?

Some here use this one also EV-DX38, although not cheap new.

http://www.electrovoice.com/product.php?id=50

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PC based solutions - for those interested in DIY


Open Source

I haven't been keeping up with this, although there are several threads at DIY Audio. Check here if interested.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/


Closed Source

http://www.thuneau.com/index.htm

Frequency Allocator - 4 way Xover - USD $149



PS- If you go with the Behringer DCX2496 digital X-over, here is a multi-thousand post thread at DIY Audio.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/15943-behringer-dcx2496-digital-x-over.html

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Guest " "

there a dozens of active crossovers on ebay for 75 bucks or less. you don't have to get crazy into this to do a basic setup. they all use the same basic op amps so there's no holy grail got to have unit. main thing is to avoid buying features you don't need. some models come with xlr, trs, rca, and all kinds of crazy inputs and outputs. the cheapest route would by 1/4 inch banana plugs and just go down to radio shace and gets some 1/4 to rca cables for about 6 bucks each. on the amp side, think about what your needs are. you do not want to use a 20wpc amp on the tweeter side and a 200wpc on the woofer side. If you can't find a cheap crossover on ebay in less than 15 minutes your doing something wrong.

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Thanks for all replies, after many reviews, I decided to go with Ashly XR1001, crossovered to (2) UPA-1's.

Initially I'm setting this as a basic setup, 1.) splilt signal send LF to UPA-1, send HF\MF to UPA-1. 2.) send the UPA-1 outputs to speaker LF and HF connections with internal Crites crossover in place. Eventually I'd like to bypass the the internal LF crossover. Are there any good webpages or youtube explaining how to do this correctly. My biggest concern would be too low of impedance on the amp by bypassing the internal crossover.

Thanks for all suggestions.

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You might want to read this entire article before you start buying stuff.

Active Vs. Passive Crossovers

http://sound.westhost.com/biamp-vs-passive.htm

Exerpt:

2.2 - The Active Solution

With an active crossover, the amplifier is connected directly to the
driver, and the only thing between them is the loudspeaker cable. The
amplifier presents the maximum damping factor at all times, regardless
of frequency, and is not affected by the crossover network, since that
is also active, and located before the power amp.

The loudspeaker driver now has the maximum control that the amplifier
can provide, across the entire frequency range - not just the crossover
network's pass band. The difference in damping is quite obvious, and
although some (very well behaved) drivers will show little improvement,
the vast majority will be much better controlled, and this will show in
an impulse measurement. Not at all uncommonly, it will also show up on a
swept sinewave frequency response measurement as well, with the
amplitude of peaks and dips generally reduced (albeit marginally in most
cases).



Well apart from the other advantages of an active system, this is
perhaps one of the most compelling reasons to use an active system
rather than passive. Not only is it possible to achieve the maximum
damping, but if it is determined that a particular driver is best suited
to some defined impedance, this can be provided by the amplifier, and
will be stable across the frequency range. In some cases, just a series
resistor will be sufficient, and even though there will be some power
loss, if it makes the driver behave the way it should, then any small
power loss is a small price to pay.



In short, there is simply no comparison between the two systems. A passive XO will always
add (usually) undesirable impedance to that seen by the driver(s), the
impedance is frequency dependent, and ranges from perhaps an ohm or so
to almost infinite. The potential for uncontrolled cone movement,
intermodulation distortion and loss of performance is so great that it
is impossible to determine in advance, but it is all negated in one fell
swoop by using a fully active system.

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If building an active system I would completely avoid Emotiva amps. You need gain controls for sure. None of their amps have any. They also have high gain and so the only way to balance such a system is to turn down the processor (crossover) outputs which can cause a high noise floor.

Lots of people complain about noise (hiss) with Emotiva amps. Using them in an active setup only makes things worse.

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If building an active system I would completely avoid Emotiva amps. You need gain controls for sure. None of their amps have any. They also have high gain and so the only way to balance such a system is to turn down the processor (crossover) outputs which can cause a high noise floor.

Lots of people complain about noise (hiss) with Emotiva amps. Using them in an active setup only makes things worse.

WTF? Even power amps from the 1980's have gain controls. And from what I just read, the XLR connectors aren't balanced.

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The funny thing is I thought manufactures got rid of amp gain controls, I looked at 3 manufactures - Emotiva, Outlaw, and Parasound classic and none of them have it. So to tell you the truth I figured it would all be handled internally or through the pre/pro.

As far as XLR connectors aren't balanced, are you saying all XLR's or Emotiva's, I've never heard a comment "Hey have you heard XLR connectors aren't balanced." But I've never searched for that either.

I will read the article, thank you, I will probably go to a tri amp directly hooked to the speakers (a true active system), but I'm going to start with the basic setup first and build up to the direct connect. I switched out my tweeter diaphragms to the titanium yesterday, before reinstalling them I ohmed them out they measured 8 ohms, which means I should be able to hook them straight to the amp without any concerns. I still have to do the mids.

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I apologize for the confusion, I read that the Emotiva UPA-1's XLR connections are not balanced, I'm not sure whether this is true or not. And yes, XLR connections are normally balanced. As was suggested, I would stay away from amps w/o gain controls for active use.

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I wanted to use Emotive to bi-amp also because of price but there were a bunch of people who complained about the hum so I didn't. One person called Emotive and were told with real efficient speakers they could hum, Emotive recommended to use the UPA model amps. The UPA were the lower powered amps Emotive sold, most have been discontinued, with the lower powered amps there was little or no hum with highly efficient amps.

I decided to not use them because the speakers I was going to bi-amp are rated around 108db which is very high. I ended up using 2 Crown D-75's which are around 30 WPC, if I remember right.

I didn't have to deal with any crossovers, the speakers do not have any, the EV-DX 38 is used instead, it's the first time I ever bi-amped any speakers.

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I looked at that EV-DX 38, for me right now that is much more than I need, but it does look like a sweet piece of electronics.

I was concerned about using 200 watts on the tweeter and midrange (UPA-1's), thats why originally looked at a 75 watt x 2 (Parasound 275). I also made a mistake, Parasound DO have level controls. Any thoughts on using a Parasound 275 or the smaller Parasound Zamp v.3 (45 watts x 2), for tweeter, midranges.

Any concerns going from the AVR RCA connections to crossover XLR connections to Parasound amp RCA connections.

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Any concerns going from the AVR RCA connections to crossover XLR connections to Parasound amp RCA connections.

Nope, I did that from my receiver into the EV, no problems. I ordered the cables from monoprice and they were cheap and works great, also got the XLR on both ends to go the amps. For now i use a AVR pre-outs as a preamp to the DX.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/search.asp?keyword=xlr+to+rca

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Any thoughts on using a Parasound 275 or the smaller Parasound Zamp v.3 (45 watts x 2), for tweeter, midranges.

THe Parasound Z amps are on my list of SS amps that I would love to try on my LS. More than enough power for me. THe reviews of them tend ot lean a bit toward the soft side, which would probably still be ok in my system.

Bruce

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Eventhough the 45 watts would be fine, I'm a little concerned about the build, some have commented on the switch quality and some of the internal components. Its also part of the z product line. Jumping up to the classic product line would be model 275, a little better build and reviews seem to be more on par with a Parasound product. Its also 21 lbs. vs 7 lbs. for the Zamp v.3.

So would it make sense to use the Parasound 275 for biamping. And in the future if I decided to tri amp use the Parasound 275 for tweeter midrange and Emotiva UPA-1 for woofer. Any thoughts? Thanks.

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