La Scalas Still Sound a little bright and harsh

[Dennie]

I think recapping the old AA will bring back the brightness, currently lost in the old caps.

Your probably right...

But, maybe not! [^o)]

When I replaced my original Type AA with Bob Crites Type A/AA convertible crossovers, it was like taking a blanket off of the speakers. Everything cleared and cleaned up. The Highs now had a "sparkle" they had been missing. They decay of the cymbals was now present, when it wasn't before. The midrange was now stunning and clean.

....and the Bass? WOW, it became full and clean and SOLID! When it was a little "mushy" with the old 1979 crossovers.

May be worth a shot! It did not make my La Scalas "Bright" or "Harsh" in any way. At least in my room.

Dennie

[Gorm]

I am beginning to think that the A/4500 crossover really isn't needed now that the K-400 is out of the picture. A type AA would probably be just fine.

[JL Sargent]

I suspect you would be really impressed with a good tube amp and type A crossovers.

[Gorm]

Well, I bought and swapped in a McIntosh Mc2505...I also swapped back in the Crites A/4500.

So basically I am running the Logitech Duet directly into the McIntosh with L and R splitters going for the subwoofer.

I think I'm in audio heaven. Harshness is just about gone, except when very loud.

I did have ALK make me a pair of universals, those should be here in a few weeks. We will see at that time which comes out on top, the ALK to the Crites 4500, which ever pair loses will get sold.

[NOSValves]

Try moving the mids and HF down a tap on the autoformer, you will need to add a couple of resistors to keep the crossover point the same.

Bingo when changing to the Trachorn you really need a crossover that has adjustment. When you relieve the driver of that long narrow throat of the K400 it increases the mid drivers effeceincy which throws off the balance of your mid horn in relation to the bass bin. I remember not so fondly when I switched to trachorns I was really depressed at how hyper detailed and mid rangy the sound was. It just sounded very un-natural.... You need to drop the mid horn about 3 to 5 db depending on your room and personal preference... You might find it helpfull to drop it way back to the point of sounding dull and then inch it back up. I highly suggest using a different more versatile crossover...

[NOSValves]

I'm thinking of having a pair of ALK universals built for them now...

Now your talking... The old AA are just masking the problem.

[Marvel]

If you pull down the mids, it will make your LS sound like they have BASS! [Y]

Bruce

[Johnny's Jill]

The ALK crossovers should do the trick, the AA doesn't have a bandpass on the midrange. I had a pair of Lascala's with ALK's and Fastracs, with the ALK's I ran the midrange on taps 0-4. If you have the k-55m you may want to attenuate a bit more.

Dave told me, the Fastrac Lascala has 1-2db less output than the K-400 due to its size.

Craig 73

[Gorm]

Well, time to revive this thread as the ALK universals showed up, and made one hell of a difference in sound / imaging. However I still think i'm surffering from the "tunnel" problem in my room. Tonight when I get home I'm going to swap them onto the long side of the wall about 8-10 feet apart and see if this takes care of it. Hopefully i will be better able to integrate the subwoofer in this fashion. I want to use a sub with the La Scalas, but everytime and on any settings, you can always tell that the bass is coming from the la scala, where I would like to be able to think its coming from the la Scalas.

[Guest " "]

your LaScala's are in a room that is 12X28 and position with their backs on one of the 12ft walls facing the other 12ft wall. They are sitting about 8ft apart. You need to put them with their backs along one of the 28ft walls and position them about 16ft apart with the primary listening position almost right up against the opposite 28ft wall. Because of the width of the room........my opinion is that the functional area of the room is really 12X16.

[BassmanBruce]

Hi Gorm,

I am new to La Scala's (one month, 1980), and after replacing 3 of 4 diaphragms, and doing a capacitor upgrade to the AA crossovers, started listening to them.

I drive them with a 1964 Marantz 8b tube amplifier, in triode mode, 20 watts per channel.

I had to do a lot of output tube swap outs/trials (have 5 different brands) and several output tube coupling caps auditions.

Finally settled on RFT/Telefunbken German EL34's and the Russian K-40Y capacitors, and this combonation will take your breath away on natural instrument smooth jazz.

I had some of the same complaints you are having on some of the combinations I tried.

Also, the speaker wire is also important. I tried "zip cord", boat cable 16/2, and by my ears my Luminous Audio cast ono copper Synchestra Signatures was the bomb.

Good luck, and I agree with others, tubes rule with these speakers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bruce

[Gorm]

So basically, The room itself is probably 14x20 with an 8x6 foyer attached near teh front door. I'm looking forward to rearranging when I get home.

[JL Sargent]

To put a fine point on it:

You swapped in a Sonicap based crossover for the original oil filled capacitor crossover and that equals more brightness. You swapped in "hotter" tweeters for your original K77s which equal more of the same. Been there, done that.

Now you have a warm sounding Mac amp that takes these affects down a notch or two and all is well. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

[colterphoto1]

damned drywall 'ping' might be culprit. Modern homes have large expanses of sheetrock of exactly the same dimension (94x14.5) which in my experience, give a sharpness to the timbre of any speaker played at more than background levels. Since you can't reconstruct the room or put in more bracing, wall treatments to diffuse/absorb certain frequencies (NOT necessarily the highest highs) is frequently the answer. Simple test- turn high-fi off, go to center of room and clap hands sharply once. Hear that? Your room is doing that to all your music.

[Gorm]

Well I did swap them onto the long way and....it was horrible. While having them 10+ feet apart did give a nice stereo image, I was sitting way to close to them. There was probably 5 feet between the start of the sofa to the speaker. That idea could probably with Cornwalls, but the La Scalas are way to deep.

I ended up moving them back and did a little experimenting.

First thing I did was plug in the K-77 tweeters...bad idea, they run WAYYY to hot with the ALKs. So i came down and did a little research on this site...I found a user who did similar experiments and said the difference between teh CT125 tweeter and K-55 should be 9.0 db on the ALK universals. Well, I did try this back in the original position and wow. So far, the bass it def more prevalent and the speakers sound much better and much much less harsh at higher volume levels. My new crites woofers who up today, and they will be installed tonight.

[Bubo]

Gorm,

I can't comment on the driver changes, caps or attenuating drivers.

My LaScalas are not in the 20x40 room I bought them for years ago; where people would drop their knees when the Mac gear turned on.

They are now in a 16x 14 room, which is safe to say sub optimal.

At least part of what you are running into are reflected sounds, standing waves and varying levels of absorption at higher volumes.

To calm things down a bit, the wall opposite the LS is floor to ceiling bookshelves, mostly books, sliding door panels have heavy insulated curtains, floor has an 80% area rug, furniture has cloth covers and large pillows, LS are aimed at the listening chair and resting on thick cotton door mats. Detail is quite good, bass can be a little boomy, could be the bass fad on new CDs.

At higher volumes, a certain brightness begins to appear, not surprisingly opening the doors and windows seems to moderate the problem noticably. I'm guessing that higher freqs don't absorb as well and perhaps bounce off of the drywall creating very fast echos or standing waves.

I don't think you can have too much damping.

I have a pair of Heresy's in a small bedroom, higher volumes the brightness starts to appear, go into the hallway and the brightness is gone.

Thanks, for all of the comments above. I'm thinking the first thing I need is a bigger house.