what brand of caps?

[colterphoto1]

I now have 5x LSI split BG. 4 currently have original AA and solder lug 55's. One bought solo is AL with K55M. I have another old AA board and solder lug V so can change that one out. Looking at replacing all 3 caps in all 5 speakers. That's 2x2uf and a 13uf (or equivalent). Cabinets already open for horn painting and other repairs so thought I'd do this. Will I be doing a disservice to use Dayton 10% caps or should I go more spendy? Bob wants $95 for a pair of AA kits but that's $250 too spendy for now. Advice from the experienced please? Btw, these show no leakage or signs of aging as they've been in totatly sealed cabinets but they are like 30 years old. Thanks!

[jhoak]

When I'm building crossovers "on the cheap" (which is most of the time) I gravitate toward the Dayton 1% or sometimes Solen caps.

Depending on available values I occasionaly need to add low value bypass caps. In those cases I use Jantzen caps when I can $$ wise.

I built a pair of DeanGs "Super AAs" for my La Scalas initially using the Daytons and planning to upgrade to Solens or Sonicaps when I could. When I did finally buy the Solens I upgraded only one and compared them. I could not hear a bit of difference between them.

I did ultimately change them to Jantzen caps. The change did make a bit of improvement but not enough to justify the $$ spent though.

This is them...

[cheric]

The Dayton 10% caps are really 5% caps but labelled as 10% for some reasons. Once upon a time, I was told that all Dayton caps were made by Bennic. Bennic makes high quality caps. I have always used Dayton 1% and 10% (5%) and been happy with them.

[kg4guy]

I now have 5x LSI split BG. 4 currently have original AA and solder lug 55's. One bought solo is AL with K55M. I have another old AA board and solder lug V so can change that one out. Looking at replacing all 3 caps in all 5 speakers. That's 2x2uf and a 13uf (or equivalent). Cabinets already open for horn painting and other repairs so thought I'd do this. Will I be doing a disservice to use Dayton 10% caps or should I go more spendy? Bob wants $95 for a pair of AA kits but that's $250 too spendy for now. Advice from the experienced please? Btw, these show no leakage or signs of aging as they've been in totatly sealed cabinets but they are like 30 years old. Thanks!

I like Solens with Dayton Film and Foil Bypass caps that's what I use on dtels AA's

[colterphoto1]

What's with the bypass caps, what does that do? I'm concerned with mixing and matching caps. Is that a Dayton and Solen makiing up the 13 uf side there?

[kg4guy]

JBL has done this with alot of there networks here is a link that explains Bypassing however get some Sonicaps they are more costly but a good deal for the quality. http://www.northcreekmusic.com/Bypassing.html

[Guest " "]

you can spend 10 bucks on a replacement cap and be "restored" or you can spend x*10 for premium caps and be at "restored"+5% or spend x*100 for platinum caps and be at restored+10%. spending 10 times more does not get you 10 times more gooder sound.

[Guest David H]

I have used Dayton 10% on many occasions, they will work fine for your application.

Dave

[DrWho]

What's more important is the composition of the cap - not so much the brand. Film caps are really good because their capacitance doesn't change with voltage and they're self-healing.

As far as the bypass cap stuff....it only matters when you can actually reduce the parasitic inductance. When your signal is travelling the same distance with the same loop area, then the total circuit inductance is the same and there is no net benefit. At audio frequencies, you're not going to be anywhere close to the lead inductance affecting the circuit performance - if it was truly audible, then you should see people shortening their capacitor lead lengths (which is way cheaper I might add).

[djk]

I don't think the inductance has anything to do with the improvement in sound that one can hear with a bypass cap, but I haven't discovered the real reason why it does.

If anyone can't hear the difference a small film-and-foil bypass makes in parallel with a cheaper large cap, they will sure save a lot of money on expensive parts.

Unfortunately, I can hear the difference.

The Bennic polypropylene are made about 5% under value, so a bypass cap brings it closer to the design value. If anything, I think the Bennic sound better than the Solen, and they are less expensive. The Dayton film-and-foil bypass are an excellent value.

I'm re-doing my HIP networks in this fashion, and adding a swamping resistor to the midrange. With the old (shot) oil-filled caps they sound pretty tired, I'm looking forward to hearing them with the new parts.

[Curious_George]

Discussing caps is about as bad as engine oil (Dino vs Synthetic), but I'll jump in anyway...

Regarding cap composition, I agree, the composition of the cap is more important than brand. If the "old" oil caps show no sign of leakage and still measure good what makes them "old and tired"? I have used small oil caps similar to the type in the Klipsch crossovers in tube amps I've built in the past. The esoteric oil caps are stupid money and I am not sure I can hear the difference.

A good film/foil cap is hard to beat, such as the Bennic brand, and they are inexpensive

[LousyTourist]

I tried Hovland caps in my AAs to replace the PIO caps already there. I didn't really notice a difference that paying $50 a capacitor would justify.

I never did try bypass caps, so I can't comment.

Refreshing the crossovers with Bob Crites 'fresh' A type with new PIO caps -- I think they call them electric motor caps -- was by far a better improvement. Of course the circuitry was different too, but by then I had modified my AA's to be A style.

[djk]

"and still measure good"

They don't, the ESR has started to climb.

But you don't need a meter, you can hear it.

"I have used small oil caps similar to the type in the Klipsch crossovers
in tube amps I've built in the past."

The older oil caps were WWII military surplus, and were hermetically sealed. Those have a much better life than the ones Klipsch had custom made for them in the mid 70s (and later). I've seen PIO WE oil caps from the 30s still be OK, they're hermetic with glass seals too. PIO Vitamin Q caps are hermetic with glass seals.

[Guest " "]

http://www.zedaudiocorp.com/Technical/Capacitors.pdf

[tigerwoodKhorns]

Solens are good, and cheap and will do the trick. I used Clarity Caps in each of my last crossover builds. The PX range is inexpensive and good quality. I stopped believing in "pixie dust" in caps, and just use the Clarity Caps every time as good quality caps that are affordable.

But if you do believe in pixie dust, here is a link to some testing where there was a definitie lack of gnomes with the Clarity Caps and the capacitor gods gave their blessing:

http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html

Just add the value and run in parallel to get to your desired value (i.e. a 12 uf and a 1 uf will make 13 uf)

http://www.madisound.com/manufacturers/claritycap/px.php

http://www.madisound.com/manufacturers/claritycap/sa.php

[Don Richard]

"and still measure good"

They don't, the ESR has started to climb.

But you don't need a meter, you can hear it.

I recently heard a pair of corner horns using a Type A crossover with the original bathtub caps. I sold the guy the crossovers over 30 years ago and I know everything is untouched on them. These are some of the sweetest sounding speakers I've heard lately. Shortly after I heard these there was a discussion on the forum here concerning ESR on ageing crossover caps, and the point was made (correctly) that high ESR would shift the crossover frequency and attenuate the signal going to the driver on that crossover section. I don't own an ESR meter but I do have a signal generator, a 200 mHz 'scope, freq counter, and DVMs so I ran sine waves and measured the crossover's output. The crossover points were correct and there was no loss through the caps.

So if the ESR has increased since the caps were new, doesn't it appear that the increase is not significant enough to detrimentally affect performance? Or am I going wrong somewhere?

[djk]

"So if the ESR has increased since the caps were new, doesn't it appear that the increase is not significant enough to detrimentally affect performance? Or am I going wrong somewhere?"

No, it sounds like they are OK.

At the risk of repeating myself:

"The older oil caps were WWII military surplus, and were hermetically sealed. Those have a much better life than the ones Klipsch had custom made for them in the mid 70s (and later). I've seen PIO WE oil caps from the 30s still be OK, they're hermetic with glass seals too. PIO Vitamin Q caps are hermetic with glass seals."

Those would be the 'bathtub' type you're referring to.

[Mike Dubay]

By all means go with the Daytons. I have used Dayton (both 1% and 10%) caps will good results, as well as the Clarity Caps. I'm hard pressed to tell the difference between them sonicly. About the only difference I can tell is that I can hear there is some break in period with the Daytons. Play them for maybe 20 hours before you make your final decision.

[colterphoto1]

sounds like the consensus is replace em with something, anything. I"m on the cheap these days and a Forum member has offered a variety of 2 ufs so I'll grab those . For the 13 looks like a 6.2 and 6.8 should do. I'll bypass the bypass for now since I can't understand Docs technojargon (reads real purty though). And check the screw holding down the choke, right? Anything else I should do while in there other than loosen/tighten all the terminal screws?

[Greg Oshiro]

I agree with those who feel that the brand is not important. My preference is polypropylene film/foil capacitors. Second choice is metallized polypropylene capacitors.

My favorite parts house is http://www.mouser.com. Their search engine is great. Start here: http://www.mouser.com/Passive-Components/Capacitors/Film-Capacitors/_/N-9x371?P=1yznbzsZ1z0wqrc&Keyword=polypropylene&FS=True for a selection of 2 uF polypropylene capacitors.