Mallette Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Whether equipment head or music head, we audiophiles analize over our equipment. For those of us for whom analog sources remain essential to not missing so much as a note of great music of the past and present, the turntable remains the point of greatest concern. For reasons some here know and really not germane at this moment, my Klipschorns remain out of service at the moment and my listening has been concentrated in my old music room, now repurposed as a library and reading room. I'd promised myself and the PAW it would not wind up filled with audio gear and such and did pretty well. Small set of shelves, a Pany digital reciever, and a computer matched with Frazier Model V's. Very nice, low profile system. My Frazier Elevens, those refrigerator sized Jack Frazier masterpieces built "just a silly db more efficient" than Klipschorns and a full octave lower to boot, remained in the family TV room as they'd been since lugged up the stairs by a couple of strapping young men who wished they'd estimated more to do this a few years ago. The PAW was off tending to LoneLobo a few weeks ago and it occurred to me that they really wouldn't take up anymore otherwise used space in the library that the Vs and, with a dolly, really wouldn't be all that hard to get in there. Figured I'd just switch them out and then move them back before the PAWs return. Done. Massive as they are, they really didn't intrude any more than the Vs, plus the sub was totally redundant so I move it into the TV room. I looked at my work and saw that it was good, and rested until the next day. At this point, I was watching something dumb on TV and my eyes cam to rest on the secondary turntable pedestal that held my former (pre-VPI) primary turntable I'd had hooked up the to TV room system prior to a rearrangement a year or so back that moved everything there around 90 degrees. I'd never gotten the the phono reconnected for various reasons. It's a Rotel 3000 direct drive with an SME II arm with a Grado Signature...not the current Signature but one from about 10 years or so ago. The stylus had been trashed a couple of years ago by a cleaning person, and I had a new one I'd never gotten around to installing since it was offline anyway. Rationalizing to the max, I figured it didn't take up any more room than the sub had in the library, so I dollied it (it has about a 100lbs of sand in the base) in and mounted the Grado. Now, since this was all just "temporary" and an experiment I expected to have to reverse in a day or so, I just eye balled the azimuth and everything. Gulp... At this point, I realized I had no phono preamp. Next rationalization: Plenty of room on the shelf for my Van Alstine Super PAS4i preamp and Van Alstine rebuilt Dynaco ST-70 amp that needed to be heated up and run anyway ofter a year or so on the shelf in the audio closet. At this point, I am in so deep my self delusion so complete I figured "What the heck..." Out went the Pany in in came the tubes. Further, after that, there remained one empty shelf soon occupied by my DBX 4BX dynamic range expander. I stepped back from my labors and saw that it was good. Time to hear what I had wrought... Dropped the needle on Jazzology "Bix Hug." This disk I'd picked up for a buck or so at an estate sale and had introduced me to Armand Hug, one of the greatest New Orleans jazz pianists of all time...if not the greatest. He learned Bix style and composition from Bix himself who he first met at age 18 when Bix was about 25. MAGIC! I really could not believe my ears. I could not hear anything at all I could atribute to anything but the recording itself. The turntable was completely transparent and the cartridge working to perfection. I couldn't help but think that perhaps it was just a fluke and I was simply really enjoying the music I'd been without for a year or so. Not so. I went on for several hours pulling disk after disk from my collection and each displayed only what was on the disk. Digital black silence between tracks and transparent, pure sound with only an occasional pop or crackle well within the normal background noise expected from any venue and any source. But the big shocker was an Archiv recording I pulled to put on whilst I read my newly acquired copy of Eusebius Pamphilus. It was of some Bach chamber music I figured would be perfect to kick back with a beer and get educated about what REALLY happened at the Council of Nicea. When I pulled it out of the album I was first stunned at the weight...at LEAST 200 grams. Looking closer, I noted the recording date: 1952. I paused and thought perhaps I should get something a bit newer for background listening, then went, what the heck. Dropped the needle and started to reach for the volume as after the contact sound I hear nothing. Then the music started. WOW! Absolute recording perfection with each pluck of the harpsichord creating a complete illusion of reality and each of the stringed instruments having both instrumental and musician presence. When I sat down, the mono image was NAILED dead center between those mighty Elevens and you'd swear the source was the turntable pedestal centered between them. The idea of music to read by was a "fail." As fascinating as Eusebius on the scene coverage of Nicea might be, no way I could concentrate on his discourse on ?μοο?σιος whilst this clear and present glory filled the room. To make a long story short, the PAW was quite skeptical on her return, until she heard it. So, she's informed me that moving them from the library will involve a capital crime. Further, the minimal install really doesn't take up any more space than before. Like Bach, we audiophiles can create magic when forced to work within a system of rigid rules. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Like Back, we audiophiles can create magic when forced to work within a system of rigid rules. Or perhaps unlike Bach, sometimes it's better to be lucky than smart? Thanks for the vignette, and good work Dave! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted June 17, 2012 Author Share Posted June 17, 2012 Thanks, bud. Correction made... Actually, I think I buried the lead. Point was I am stunned at how little care I took with cartidge mounting, alignment, weight, anti-skate, etc and how extraordinary the results are. Actually, I cannot use the lowering lever as the antiskate is too high for it to drop straight. Not going to touch it...I'll just lower it manually. With apologies to a real stretch on Ben Franklin, no way I am going to sacrifice sonic perfection for a bit of convenience. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 This really makes you a music head, you know... [Y] I have been misunderstood a few times when I seem to point out that it isn't all in the specs of the gear, but how it happens to all work together to give us MUSIC! Congrats, Dave, on a great story. Glad, too, that the PAW likes it so much. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted June 17, 2012 Author Share Posted June 17, 2012 The PAW never ceases to amaze. Not sure you've ever seen Frazier Dixielanders, but they are about a 1 on the WAF scale. I've a pair in our master bedroom on loan from Tim Spell and today she asked me what I thought about them. Without going into the whole thing, I told her I really hadn't been able to spend a lot of time with them but my initial reaction was they'd fare better in a less near field environment. Then, she suggested perhaps moving them up to the TV area where they'd be farther apart and away from the seating, and what she heard suggested they'd be superb dialog speakers and she thought they really looked great... They are utility grey with enormous Frazier logos in the middle and a big honkin' horn on top. Go figure. That's why she's the one and only PAW for Dave. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet_Hollow Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 A very entertaining read. Bravo! [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Thanks, bud. Correction made... Actually, I think I buried the lead. Point was I am stunned at how little care I took with cartidge mounting, alignment, weight, anti-skate, etc and how extraordinary the results are. Actually, I cannot use the lowering lever as the antiskate is too high for it to drop straight. Not going to touch it...I'll just lower it manually. With apologies to a real stretch on Ben Franklin, no way I am going to sacrifice sonic perfection for a bit of convenience. Dave My response was really about your point. Absolutely leave it be unless something starts to bother you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Robin Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 I believe in Magic. Sometimes everything just falls into place like it is supposed to. IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted June 18, 2012 Author Share Posted June 18, 2012 Absolutely leave it be unless something starts to bother you. Well, it's just like that little noise in your system you never heard until someone points it out and then it is ALL you hear... Gotta fix it! [8-|] Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted June 20, 2012 Author Share Posted June 20, 2012 Well, it's confirmed. No touching this system! I've been through a variety of vinyl and this is the best playback chain I've ever had and equal to the best I've ever heard. It moves me to consider a new cartridge and bucking up to the cost of sending my VPI to the factory for mounting and alignment when the day comes I set up my Klipschorn music room again. The Grado is performing better in the Rotel/SME than it did in the VPI, and there HAS to be something wrong with that picture. I am also, for the first time in a long time, considering keeping an eye on the market for another tube amp for that system. It would likely be somthing like a Jolida 102CRC unless I hit the lottery, but I suspect that would work well. I'll definitely plumb the forum for suggestions in that price range when the time is right. Normally, the ST-70/Super PAS4I combo is the engine of choice for it, but, like I said, I'd be hard pressed to want to change ANYTHING in this "secondary" system! Gonna have to earn some "mad money" somehow... As to the highlights of the last couple of days playback, probably the pinnacle was the legendary in all aspects Crystal Clear Virgil Fox recording with the Valhalla-level team of Ed Wodenjak, Bert Whyte, Stan Ricker, and Richard Simpson, with Stan Ricker in the role of "King of the Gods." Everytime I hear it I feel like never hitting a "record" button again as I attempt to imagine the skill required to control a disc lathe under the rolling thunder to tomb quiet assault of Virgil. With a very precise, just below 1.2 expansion setting and an equally low impact restoration setting on the DBX4BX this disc played displays a dynamic and frequency range that defies logic and overwhelms the senses. For a several decades I rather shunned Virgil as a carnival act and showman whilst building a significant collection of the recordings of that technical, conservative master E. Power Biggs. Still love him, but after collecting a few of the best Fox performances including several different issues of this legendary Garden Grove Community Church digital and direct to disc sessions, I realize that it's likely E. Power said something like "Damit, Virgil, wish I'd had more FUN with it like you did!" on his apotheosis to the heavenly organ gallery. Enoch Light "Command Performances, Vol. II" is a classic "ping pong" stereo album where the music has been sacrificed entirely to the display of engineering and disc quality. If the impact, dynamic range, and downright disconcerting realism (except for the heavy handed reverb) of the percussion and winds weren't so engaging it would be unlistenable musically. Playback on this "new" setup was so good I made it through an ENTIRE SIDE! Well, I've been through some others as well in a reasonable sampling of my better jazz, organ, and choral stuff but have yet to get to rock and roll as well as my more esoteric bits like the incredible "Sublime Harmonie" music box record or the extraordinary Audio Fidelity recording of the automated band organ. So much music, so little time! Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 For a several decades I rather shunned Virgil as a carnival act and showman whilst building a significant collection of the recordings of that technical, conservative master E. Power Biggs. Still love him, but after collecting a few of the best Fox performances including several different issues of this legendary Garden Grove Community Church digital and direct to disc sessions, I realize that it's likely E. Power said something like "Damit, Virgil, wish I'd had more FUN with it like you did!" on his apotheosis to the heavenly organ gallery. 100% agree on that. About a month ago I was listening to Virgil Fox doing his rendition of Sleepers Awake, written as a dirge often heard these days in funeral homes. Fox played the work so that it was more of a march, very lively and bouncy. Fox played from memory when he performed and that probably contributed to his improvisational style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacea Engineering Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Dave, When and if you get the notion for a new cartridge, look into the S.A.E. 1000 MC (Eliptical). I have two of them playing regularily and they are supberb. They can be had for 200 and plays like something much more expensive. Now you have me looking for Fox stuff......you are EVIL....![6] W. C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted June 20, 2012 Author Share Posted June 20, 2012 Well, WC, you will find out just how good that cartridge is (or not!) when you get one of those Crystal Clear recordings. It's great to be a pipe organ lover...if those were Beatles, Pink Floyd, or Miles Davis recordings we wouldn't be able to afford them... I think "lightly played" or better can be found in the 40-60 range and IMHO, one of the great bargains in recorded audio. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik2A3 Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Dave: that's awesome! I was poking around google images looking at Frazier Elevens, and those are NEAT speakers! It's amazing when you hear loudspeakers lock correctly with the room; it's unmistakable when it happens. Like you, I'm finding some of the very best recordings I have ever heard on ols vynil picked up for next to nothing -- crystal clear mic feeds that have amazing immediacy, and to use your word, 'presence'. I did a crazy thing today: took the tops off the Klipschorns, and put just the bass bins tight in the corners of the shorter, 16 foot wall. Them put our La Scalas (industrial) just inboard of those, with the mid-horns from the klipschorns on top of the LS, MTM fashion, and connected the bass bins of both big speakers in series. Doubling up on tweeters does not work well for me, so I just used one. I made a small adjustment in the crossover to compensate for the parallel midrange driver and resulting impedance change, and then connected all to the amplifier. Doubtless this arrangement would be all over the place in a response plot, but sometimes things that don't measure particulalrly well sound just fine -- just as linear or otherwise ideal specs do not always equate with what one would really want to hear. And of course sometimes there are direct, unambiguous correlations between the two. Regardless, I was taken with what I heard! Al Dimeola's fairly recent album "Consequence of Chaos" had a vitality that was not there before, and the low end improvement with the addition of the bass horns in the corners was impressive. This whole setup begs for active frequency division, but it's been something I have thought about trying for some time. Initial attempts are encouraging! Glad your enjoying your Fraziers. Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted June 20, 2012 Author Share Posted June 20, 2012 Sounds like GLA51's "Wall of Voodoo" that looks like it should sound like a mess and images and sounds like a dream, a very good, wet dream! Love to visit with you in person sometime... As I mentioned, I fear that after over a decade of satisfaction I may be headed into acquistion mode again as I will be putting my main Klipschorn system back into service in the not too distant future and can't see pulling my ST-70 and Super PAS4i preamp from this one. I'll be posting for guidance when and if that happens. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube fanatic Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Dave, what you have discovered is not the least bit suprising. Decades ago, Langford-Smith (who literally wrote "the book" on audio amplifier design) made the following statement which I have shown to every person for whom I have either designed, serviced or restored an amp since 1960: "The purpose of high fidelity reproduction of music is to satisfy a particular listener, who is primarily interested in the emotions arising from what he hears. The complete process involves sensations and emotions which cannot be treated objectively and must bring in personal preferences and differences of opinion." My complete agreement with this has shaped my amp design philosophy. With all of the heated discussions we've had on here about the merits of SETs or any other type of amp, the "best" type of speaker, etc, it still reverts back to this simple statement of what audio is all about. So, enjoy your new setup (I'm jealous as I'm still not quite there!!!) And if someone comes over and disagrees with your assessment of the sound, the heck with them! You have found your "sonic nirvana!!!" Wish I lived down your way as I'd love to hear your system. Regards-- Maynard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted June 20, 2012 Author Share Posted June 20, 2012 And if someone comes over and disagrees with your assessment of the sound, the heck with them! You have found your "sonic nirvana!!!" Wish I lived down your way as I'd love to hear your system. Amen! Neither yours, nor anyone elses opinion would change what I hear. As to dropping by, all I ask is you knock before entering unless the door is standing open... As with all the Klipsch Klan you are most welcome if you are in the area. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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