Edroom Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Ok, I have been moving towards this project like a turtle, slow and steady... I have Klipschorns and drive them with Mcintosh gear, I have a c-28 which has a center channel output so of course I think I have to add a speaker in the middle. Well first I need to get an appropriate Center....Got a Belle...check! Next I need to upgrade my 2 channel amp (mc2105) or add another matching channel....traded up to a 7106, 6 channels or 3 bridged, perfect!...check! Now all I have to do is rip my entire system apart, remove my present shelving (which was quite a project finding just the right set up) and find a way to fit all the electronics on top of the Belle and to the sides....have not quite figured this part out yet, nor had the time lately. So as I ponder the set up and look for just the right shelves which will A. Fit the space, B. Look good and meet the local WAF code, C. be in my price range and D. fit my equipment it occurs to me....is this going to be worth all the effort? Now, I am commited (or should be) and I am going to complete this set up change at some point, but I am curious what others experience to this same situation is. Paul Klipsch used a center long before the days of "surround sound" and we know that is why the Heresy was developed etc. I read about people looking for the right center all the time, is everyone doing home theater with their Heritage Klipsch? What is the benefit? will my imaging improve? Please share your old school center channel experience with me! Thanks! Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 IMO, yes. I've never used it, as I've not had a long (wide) enough wall for Khorns to use it. I have heard it set up properly; it's worth the trouble. The first time I heard it was at a PWK travelling demonstration in Lansing, MI circa 1976. It was amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleJ Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Edroom: Yes!! I've heard this setup at one of the Klipsch Pilgrimages a couple of years ago and it works very well, if implemented correctly. I've attached a PDF that may be helpful Thanks JJ 07-05-2012.pdf 07-05-2012.pdf 07-05-2012.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 It is beneficial. Probably more so than most of the mods discussed in this forum. The improvement is most noticeable when the L & R speakers are widely separated Please keep in mind that the level of the center is a few-to-several dB below the L & R speakers. Consequently, the extra amp does not need to be outrageously fancy. If you are hesitant, then simply borrow a Hersesy and a cheap amp to get a feel for the difference. The center image will be more stable (less "fragile") and you will have a more forgiving sweet spot. Good luck, -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 PWK said it, I believe it...that settles it! [] Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 For a minute there I thought I was in the Home Theater section! Maybe I should try this somehow, considering I already have the center channel in place for HT. It's too bad that the required mix of the R+L isn't implemented in AVRs as a processing mode. It would be plug & play for us with HT setups! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChipByrd Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 So the Heresy was originally designed to be a center? That's cool! Was it for Khorns only or did PWK anticipate its use with other Heritage products? And how far is "wide enough" to consider a center? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Well I have used a Cornwall since 1965 with a powered center channel on usually 22 to 25ft walls. I don't have to sit in the sweet spot to hear all the different positions of the instruments. I can walk around be-boppin to the music and all the stuff comes out at the correct position. The sub corrected some spurious stuff also at around 98 db SPL roughly. I also crank up the bass at 30 HZ about 6 db on the equalizer plus some on the receiver, sometimes 10 db. It just staggers me to think about it. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhetor Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 I am relieved . . . We are discussing adding a third channel in the 2 Channel forum! I always wanted to ask, but wanted to not start eating a sacred cow! :-). In my HT, I have K-horns as fronts . . . I have a Belle sitting unused. I am powering my HT with an RC62 and always have to fiddle with eq to get the voices right I the RC62 trying to image with the Khorns. Even though I go +10db on the center, I have to weaken the K-horns down to -6db to get a close match. Even then, every movie is different. So, I have been thinking about moving the RC62 out, and installing the abelle as my center. I listen to 2 channel music most of the time (76%) . . . Always wondered if Imcould match a Belle as the center for both HT and 3 channel music setup since Imhave about 24 feet between my Khorns. So, for three channel music listening on my Khorns and Denon4311ci, would the Belle match up, like Edroom is proposing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 The Belle would be a much better center even for HT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennie Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 The Belle would be a much better center even for HT! ............. Absolutely! Give it a try and let us know what you think! Dennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khornbred Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 line up the firing squad... personally, i think the center channel as being discussed here is still essentially only two channels. this became abundantly clear as i listen to my current setup. you guys are gonna lynch me for this. i finally joined the khorn club. however i'm not quite there yet, and have forbid myself from upgrading my speakers for a while, though they need crossovers and tweets. one speaker is a 62 khorn, completely virgin down to the dust on the crossover. the other is a speakerlab k with klipsch drivers, only until i find a proper replacement. this speaker still uses the awful speakerlab crossover. currently the imaging just isn't there.they are on a narrow 13 ft wall. listening position is about 12 ft from the wall and should be further back, as they sound too far apart. now is where it gets ugly. in the same room i have my CF-3s setup as well. they are plugged into the "B" speaker terminals on my Rotel reciever. they are about 6 feet apart, toed in between the cornerhorns. shamefully i admit i've been doing most of my listening with both pair of speakers playing, and i like it. in this setup it's not a center channel, rather a stereo pair tightly centered between the cornerhorns. it's an odd combo, the CF-3s are not as efficient, and have a different voice. but the result is awesome imaging, with an added feeling of ambience, the cf-3s have bright, clear highs which help define the image, front and center, while the rolled off highs of the khorns fill in the rest of the stage.in essence out of two amplifier channels, i now have 4 channels of program material due to the different response and location of the two pair of speakers.it's far from perfect, but i think i've stumbled onto an interesting speaker arrangement that may be worth trying if you should happen to have a pair of Belles or LaScalas laying around and a long wall that already has cornerhorns in place. soon i'll have my AV room finished and i'll upgrade my khorns and give the cf-3s their own room. but i worry that i'm hooked on the center channel(s). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Dude!!!!!, Klipschorns like to be far apart, 20 feet is a GOOD thing!! If they sound to far apart at 13 feet, then Houston, we have a problem, and it is probably in the speakers..... 20 feet with a center channel is a good thing!!! I have an MWM double binn that I am giving to my buddy Kevin Harmon, and he is going to K-69 and 402 it between his Jubilees for a center! Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Ok, I have been moving towards this project like a turtle, slow and steady... I have Klipschorns and drive them with Mcintosh gear, I have a c-28 which has a center channel output so of course I think I have to add a speaker in the middle. Well first I need to get an appropriate Center....Got a Belle...check! Next I need to upgrade my 2 channel amp (mc2105) or add another matching channel....traded up to a 7106, 6 channels or 3 bridged, perfect!...check! Now all I have to do is rip my entire system apart, remove my present shelving (which was quite a project finding just the right set up) and find a way to fit all the electronics on top of the Belle and to the sides....have not quite figured this part out yet, nor had the time lately. So as I ponder the set up and look for just the right shelves which will A. Fit the space, B. Look good and meet the local WAF code, C. be in my price range and D. fit my equipment it occurs to me....is this going to be worth all the effort? Now, I am commited (or should be) and I am going to complete this set up change at some point, but I am curious what others experience to this same situation is. Paul Klipsch used a center long before the days of "surround sound" and we know that is why the Heresy was developed etc. I read about people looking for the right center all the time, is everyone doing home theater with their Heritage Klipsch? What is the benefit? will my imaging improve? Please share your old school center channel experience with me! Thanks! Ed Ed, I know you already have the Belle, but have you considdered a 2 piece Pro-LaScala? It might open up other options on your shelving, you will have the same K-400 midrange Horn, and you can raise the Top Hat to the same level as your Klipschorns. Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khornbred Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 yes, the problem is that i am not allowing myself to spend the money right now to correct the situations i listed, in addition to room treatments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 I know you already have the Belle, but have you considdered a 2 piece Pro-LaScala? If having a seperate HF section will help why not seperate the Top section of the Belle from the LF..? miketn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 currently the imaging just isn't there.they are on a narrow 13 ft wall. listening position is about 12 ft from the wall and should be further back, as they sound too far apart. ? 13 feet apart is on the very short side for KHorns. The sweet spot is half that from the front wall, so 6.5 feet!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 ...currently the imaging just isn't there.they are on a narrow 13 ft wall. listening position is about 12 ft from the wall...,as they sound too far apart.I recommend reading the Corner Horn Imaging FAQ You might also post a picture of your room with speakers, then better advice might be possible. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khornbred Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 thanks guys, but i'm not concerned at this point. i have two rooms worth of stuff crammed into the listening area, no room treatments, the extra speakers and tv between the horns, etc. in addition to the upgrades i'd like to the tweets and crossovers. i've been thru the faq before i got the horns, i know i have a lot to address to make them sound perfect, or even right. don't get me wrong, my cornerhorns sound good. my point was not to hijack the thread with the problems of my system, rather to offer what i discoverd while experimenting and doing A/B testing which became A+B testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I used a three channel Khorn setup both with a LaScala and Heresy center. I absolutely loved the sound with my 2 way Khorn system. Adding the center channel was underwheljming IN MY ROOM. I thought the sound was fine, but think my Khorns weren't far enough apart to really benefit from the "wall of sound." There was no hole in the soundstage to start out with. Eventually took the center out of my system. It was pretty cool and alot of fun to set up. In my particular listening room, the center channel did not improve the sound. Didn't hurt the sound, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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