Wolfbane Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 I've got a pair of 1982 Belles coming which are serialed numbered with the finish 'BKOL' (red oak lacquer) . They are going to replaced my 1979 Cornwalls which have the oiled walnut finish. Can someone recommend a good commercial product to use for cleaning up and treating the veneer finish on these? Initially I just want to apply something that will clean the veneer but not adversely affect the finish. TIA, Wb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 You can go to the main site and look under Help for Heritage Owners Manual. The newer one says to use only a dry cloth. The older one says you can moisten the cloth if necessary. Actually the lacquer is on top of the veneer so you can't alter the veneer without affecting the lacquer. It may be that you have some damage to the veneer? If so, the lacquer is also damaged. Depends what your problem is. If you post a picture maybe someone can help. Do not use Murphy's Oil Soap. WMcD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Hmmm, no joy on this thread. I have not worked with oak and lacquer on Klipsch speakers. But I'll give you my thoughts based on some experience and reading. Oak is of course a light colored wood. It is also prone to darkening of color from water especially water contaminated with much of anything. Plant pot run off or pet stains really have a bad effect. Iron has a particularly bad effect of turning it black. Further, oak tends to turn grey unless protected from the air with a covering finish. We see this often in old oak flooring or hand rails or butcher block type tables when the varnish (or lacquer) has been worn away. Oil - varnish finishes tend to change the bare oak from white-ish to a warmer color. Which is okay if that is what you want. Generally these finishes with give a warm tint to all woods and increase the contrast of the grain. But, lacquer does not tend to give any wood a warm color, nor do the modern water based finshes sold as varnish. Spray-on clear lacquer is used in commercial furniture because it dries quickly. It is possible to build up multiple coats of lacquer even to the point where it appears to be a coating of plastic. But overall, I've seen oak with a thin coat of lacquer which does not give much protection from water and contaminated water. That may be the case with your speakers, though I hesitate to say anthing bad about Klipsch. Therefore you can understand the double whammie. A thin coat of lacquer is not much protection from contamination, and oak is sensitive to contamination. How much you can do to reverse damage depends on how much damage there is. It is possible to remove lacquer with lacquer thinner and then sand the oak gently with very fine paper or even a Scotchbrite pad (non-scratch type, my favorite). Of course everyone is warry of sanding through the veneer. If you have a bad stain, it may be because the offending liquid has gone though the veneer entirely. What to do after that? A wipe-on varnish is the most easy but will darken the oak a bit. Tell us what you've got and post photos. BTW, we've had a couple of go-arounds about Murphy's Oil Soap and the harm it can do. It really is a soap with hash caustic chemicals and water (both bad for raw wood). The label says to use it only on finished wood. This means wood with a very good finish where the solution can't get to the wood. WMcD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 in most cases, no sanding needed with lacquer . do not use any silicone based cleaners or polishes...if any have ever been used...the following does not apply. clean off any dirt, dust, hair, etc with a fine mesh low lint cloth (like t-shirt material). get a spray gun and spray a very light coat of lacquer thinner on the cabs one side at a time with the side being sprayed in a horizontal position (table top mode). The lacquer thinner will dissolve the lacquer and when it dries, the finish is self smoothing. Problems will occur if silicone products such as furniture polish were ever used...the finish will fog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfbane Posted August 17, 2012 Author Share Posted August 17, 2012 Thanks for both your detailed replies on this. I have owned a pair of oiled walnut 1979 Cornwalls that were pretty much in mint condition for their age when I acquired them as the 3rd owner. These speakers are nice and easy to maintain with applications of only a product called 'Terra Nova Naturoil' 3 or 4 times a year. After looking for a pair of Belles for a couple of years within a six or seven hundred mile range of my home I found a pair on the internet. They are lacquered red oak and the quality of the photos I've received from the seller who is using a low resolution camera is quite poor. These speakers are going to be here later this evening and I'm going to take some detailed photos tomorrow. I will post them here sometime tomorrow after I figure out how to post images. Wb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 A thin coat of lacquer is not much protection from contamination, and oak is sensitive to contamination. How much you can do to reverse damage depends on how much damage there is. It is possible to remove lacquer with lacquer thinner and then sand the oak gently with very fine paper or even a Scotchbrite pad (non-scratch type, my favorite). Of course everyone is warry of sanding through the veneer. If you have a bad stain, it may be because the offending liquid has gone though the veneer entirely. Gil, thanks once again for coming up with your exceptional knowledge! But, now let me add another warning! -- Veneer may darken considerably if you use lacquer thinner and and sand it. That's what happened to my mahogany lacquer K-horns when a restoration firm tried to remove the Murphy's oil soap (you'll recall they were made in 1962). Now, they don't look anything like they used to.I was told that the process would darken the veneer, but not the extent to which it would happen. I asked about bleaching, restaining, and re-lacquering, but was told that the veneer had been bleached originally, and re-bleaching was not a good idea. Unfortunately, the restoration firm has made very poor judgements and predictions in all of this. I think caution in using ANYTHING except a soft cloth is definitely the order of the day. Try any experimental applications on some area that is as out-of-the way as possible and preferably where it will never be seen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfbane Posted August 18, 2012 Author Share Posted August 18, 2012 Well the Belles are here sitting in the garage until I have an opportunity to clean them up, replace the tweeters and XO's later next week. One speaker is in wonderful cosmetic condition the other water damaged I believe from a leaking planter or glass of liquid being left on the speaker. There is also some surface damage on the same speakers leaft side. All damage is visible here: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfbane Posted August 18, 2012 Author Share Posted August 18, 2012 Close up image: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfbane Posted August 18, 2012 Author Share Posted August 18, 2012 And the side damage here: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Oh, Goodness, the poor things. What happenend to the side? Vampire bite? The photo of the top makes the front face look white. Is the veneer strip missing? Just a matter of lighting? Smile, WMcD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfbane Posted August 21, 2012 Author Share Posted August 21, 2012 Not sure what happened to the side. Discoloration is in the finish, no damage other then cosmetic. No veneer is missing just a bright flat light source. Wb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 From the one pic, the 3/4 inch veneer strip on the front edge of the top is missing. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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