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Headed for divorce court if I bring home another pair of speakers :)


Youthman
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There's an idea...[:P]

Well...no comparison testing tonight. Water pump went out in my Expedition so I spent the past 3 hours replacing it. The only thing I've every done is oil changes and brakes. My mechanic was booked all week and I was leaking 2 gallons of water a day so I needed to get it done ASAP. Thanks to youtube and a lot of praying, my Dad and I got it replaced and all is well again. [:D]

Hopefully, I can listen to them tomorrow....stay tuned.

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Excellent way to spend some time with your Dad.

That is for sure. When I was a young teenager, he would be working on his car and I would come out to help. He would just get so frustrated, he would rather not have my "helping" so I never learned the handiman and mechanics stuff as a kid.

Divide your mechanic's water pump quote by three and that's how much you paid yourself per hour to do it yourself.

Yeah, I have no idea how much he would have charged. I'll ask him tomorrow. :)

Youth, mark my words, your next speaker excursion in your home will be LaScallas.

That very well maybe....but I doubt a "conversion" will take place. I really just don't see a "need" to part with my RF-83's. I like them that much. If I could keep them out in front like they are now, I would love them even more, especially for 2ch. One day, I'll probably redesign the front wall and make my screen a lot bigger and go with an AT screen. Who knows...but that's WAY down the road.

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Ok, here is a question regarding A/B testing. Banana plugs are great because you can demo a scene or a song, then easily switch speakers and listen again to compare. The short amount of time between switching allows for easier comparison. The problem I see with this method is we always talk about placement is everything. Is it an unfair comparison if the speakers are placed side by side?

For example, the B&W's will get a boundary gain being close to the side walls where the KLF-30's rear ports are firing inside the false wall doors behind them and onto the front wall that is 3 - 4ft behind them. So technically, they are 4ft off of the front wall with minimal boundary gain. Not sure if bass is the only thing that would be effected but my guess is soundstage would change with placement, bass response.

Would it be better to put one set of speakers up front, listen to scenes & songs, maybe take notes, then move them out of the way and put another set there in it's place and repeat the same tests? What are your thoughts?

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here are my 2 cents worth. If you want to compare two speakers just make sure that you compare them each positioned with the centre of the mid horn at your ear level when seated. Make whatever adjustment that you need to. I think that if you raised up your KLF30 so the centre of the mid horn is on your ear when seated you will be very pleased. You may be there now it all depends upon your couch and your height. Best regards Moray James.

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Would it be better to put one set of speakers up front, listen to scenes & songs, maybe take notes, then move them out of the way and put another set there in it's place and repeat the same tests?

If I had those heavy speakers, I think I would just get them as close to their sweet spots as possible without having to move them every 5min......It's an A,B,C, test......Next thing you know you will have that 10foot woofer from "Back to the Future" in your HT behind the false wall....[:P]
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For testing....

Speakers A into position 1 with Speakers B into position 2. A/B with a variety of material using the banana plug switching.... Take notes and form an opinion

Now, move/swap Speakers B into position 1 and Speakers A into position 2 - repeat A/B testing with same material as before comparing notes.

This will isolate the room effect for the most part so you can listen to both speakers in both positions for an equal quick A/B comparison.

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I spent the past hour in the HT A/Bing the RF-83's and the KLF-30's. As stated before, I do not have critical ears and my assessment is in no way scientific. LOL. With that said, here are my thoughts.

Most of the time, the volume ranged from 88 - 92db since I wanted to see how they both sounded ad a descent loudness.

Test 1: KLF-30's (Closest to the side walls) and RF-83's (Away from the side walls)

Material: Stomp Bluray "Basketball" Scene
(Not much dynamic to this scene. Lots of bass from basketballs hitting the floor and some highs with hand claps.

Thoughts on the RF-83's:
Not a ton of bottom end. Could hear it but did not "feel" it like I did with the KLF-30's. Hand claps were very detailed.

Thoughts on the KLF-30's:
You could "feel" the bass, much more ponounced in the bottom end than the RF-83's. Very detailed on the "clap" sounds.


Material: Hagles Hell Freezes Over DVD "Hotel California"

Thoughts on the RF-83's:
RF-83's had perffect imaging! Had a "Phantom Center". I even got up to make sure my center channel was not on. Surprisingly, the bass was spread across the front soundstage as well (never noticed that before). Again, I got up to make sure my dual Velodyne subs were not on. Plucking sounded very natural, strings thick and full. Very wide soundstage.

Thoughts on the KLF-30's:
KLF-30's sounded very directional. Imaging was not like what I was hearing with the RF-83's. No Phantom Center. Highs didn't sound as bright as the RF-83's.


Material: Nora Jones DVD "One Flight Down"

Thoughts on the RF-83's:
Vocals sounded much smoother, more natural sounding.

Thoughts on the KLF-30's:
Vocals seemed a little forced.

Material: Avengers DVD in 5.1 Surround (Scene where Hulk says, "I'm always Angry and punches the centipede thing.

Thoughts on the RF-83's:
Score was more dynamic sounding than the KLF-30's

Thoughts on the KLF-30's:
More LFE than the RF-83's when the monster lands onto the ground after Hulk punches him in his grill.

At this point to be honest, I didn't really "take notes", just some mental ones.

When I moved the RF-83's near the wall and placed the KLF-30's further away from the side walls, the RF-83's were pretty even in the bottom end. This says a lot for the dual 12" woofers in the KLF-30's. The RF-83's need the boundary gain (I think that's what you call it) to keep up with the amount of bass that the KLF-30's have when they are not near a wall. LOL

Overall Thoughts:
The KLF-30's are a true powerhouse. Although the RF-83's provide plenty of bass on their own, the KLF-30's have them beat hands down in the bottom region. You could "feel" the bass from the KLF-30's even when they were not close to the wall, whereas the RF-83's needed to be close to the side wall for you to really "feel" them.

I prefer the vocals on the RF-83's over the KLF-30's. My ears prefer the refined smoothness of the RF-83's. The KLF-30's sometimes sounded "forced" in the vocal region. Not sure if it was because they are "brighter" maybe? Not exactly sure.

Finally, the KLF-30's did not seem to image as well as the RF-83's. In both locations, the RF-83's had a very broad soundstage and the imaging was excellent providing a phantom center. I just didn't get that with the KLF-30's. Granted, I set them up and played them and did not try and adjust the angles of the speakers. It was a quick plug and play. I might could have achieved the same imaging with the KLF-30's if I had tried different angles towards the listening area. So I either got lucky and just happened to get the angle spot on with the RF-83's in both locations or they just are easier to achieve a good imaging.

So there you have it...Youthman's non-scientific, non-measurable comparison between the Top Reference and the Top Legend speakers. Again,my findings are coming from a guy that does not have "critical" ears, nor have I ever remotely considered myself in any way an audiophile. I'm an audio enthusiast at the very best. [:D]

I am once again shown that you really can't go wrong with Klipsch. Klipsch makes remarkable speakers in all shapes and sizes. It's just cool for me to be able to demo various models in my HT and share my thoughts with everyone.

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Thanks for your review. I would forget movie tests for now, and concentrate on music that you know really well. Of course, those 30s are going to sound a bit different if you upgrade to the Ti diaphragms that Crites sells for very little coin. Did you have all your room processing "Audyssey" type stuff turned off and running these tests DIRECT? I assume you had the sub turned off, and testing it all set to "large"?

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That phantom center thing is awesom when you see it in action for the first time. Looking at the size of the KLF 30 woofer, I am not surprised of your findings. Just knowing the size of the 83's woofer and comparing the KLF 30 woofers put things into perspective. Thank for sharing.

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I am living a bit through you right now with your options and great room to listen in!!!!! (3 year old and 3 month old lower my ability to have audio fun....)

I think if you live with the KLF series you will like and respect even more. I REALLY miss my KLF20s....our current house just didnt make since for them, but my parents HT loves them. My buddy has the 30s and like mentioned before we both thought the 20s have better overall sound (even bass).

I really miss the punch of the duel 10s and duel horns. My current reference line seem to be a bit less "in your face" that I got used too with the KLF. But also our current setup is a joke for good HT sound. Just not enough room to let everything breathe.

glad too see people are keeping the older lines in the news!

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(3 year old and 3 month old lower my ability to have audio fun....)

Ain't that the truth. Been there my friend. I have 4 children ages 13 down to 6.

My current reference line seem to be a bit less "in your face" that I got used too with the KLF.

I agree. Maybe because my ears are used to the laid back and smoothe sound of the RF-83's the KLF-30's sound a bit harsh or bright?

glad too see people are keeping the older lines in the news!

Nothing wrong with older speakers at all. They wouldn't still be around if they were junk. [;)]

Maybe I'm on a mission to own as much Klipsch speakers as possible (not to keep all of them). Over the years, I have enjoyed buying gear just out of curiosity to see how it sounds with my setup. Then sell it and buy more gear to demo. Who knows....if I come across a model that absolutely blows my RF-83's out of the water, I might consider selling the RF-83's but I have yet to find a pair that has done that.

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Thanks for the comparison.

Glad to do it.

Perfect! That pretty much sums up how I A/B speakers. Not a lot of numbers or data, just listening.

I just really wish I knew how to articulate what I'm hearing. I can hear differences with speakers but can't describe it like what you read in audio review magazines when they review a speaker. My reviews are definitely in simple man terms. Haha

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