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Built-In Tapped Horn Subs?


vondy

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I'm going to be building some built-in shelves and cabinetry on one of our walls in the living room. Looking at some of these DIY Horn Sub threads got me thinking, what if I build a couple into these shelves? The tall tapped horns seem like they would fit right in and not even be noticeable. Heck the wife would not even know they are there ;-).

Anyway, the build would be easy as I am starting everything from scratch. My question is, would these being built-in effect the sound? Do they need to breath like a full range speaker?


See my very rough mockup. Posted Image

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My question is, would these being built-in affect the sound? Do they need to breath like a full range speaker?

Building them into the wall would actually make them better since they would be braced better against flexing. You actually don't want cavities around the speaker if you can avoid them. Be prepared to EQ them into the room's acoustical setting after your build, regardless of how flat the TH subs measure outside on the ground. I found that I needed over 10 dB of peak removal in-room in a couple of areas of its FR even though my SPUDs measure essentially flat to within 1-2 dB(SPL) to 17 Hz outside on the ground. I cross from my Jubs to the SPUDS at 40 Hz.

You might also think about stiffening the side walls next to the mouths of the THs - this will help a great deal in reproducing frequencies below ~25 Hz, and especially below ~17 Hz, IMO.

You have the right configuration shown - mouths in the corners of the room next to the floor, just behind your Fortes.

Chris

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Thanks Chris.

Good to know there's someone in the neighborhood with some Jubs ;-)

Drop by for a listen sometime -- I can share like all the other guys on the block... [;)]

Chris

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Getting a bit more creative/crazy with this idea, what if I built in a pair of LaScallas as well. The base bins would face forward and the mid horn and tweet would be hidden behind screens and directional. Maybe the subs would lie horizontally on the floor as a base to the cabinet. The LaScallas would be pushed to the corners.

Thoughts...? Or am I just crazy thinking?

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...what if I built in a pair of LaScallas as well. The bass bins would face forward and the mid horn and tweet would be hidden behind screens and directional. Maybe the subs would lie horizontally on the floor as a base to the cabinet. The La Scalas would be pushed to the corners. Thoughts...? Or am I just crazy thinking?

Not crazy.

Some thoughts on your ideas:

1) The La Scala's would need to be re-EQed after you recess them, and especially when you place them behind a screen.. Plan on acquiring a good EQ unit, even much better, an active digital crossover, such as a Behringer DCX-2496 (cheapest), EV DC-One (better), or an Ashly Protea (best), etc. so that you can bi-amp, tri-amp, or even quadruple-amp with your TH subs and your La Scalas, to time-align all your horns/drivers at the same time that you are EQing them all.

2) You will need to toe-in the La Scalas to point directly at your prime listening position. I don't recommend "twisting" the top of your La Scalas to do this (if you have industrial La Scalas).

3) Laying the subs flat with their mouths closest to the La Scalas would be a good approach.

Chris

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Isn't planning this stuff fun?

If you do build in the speakers, think about putting some accoustic foam on the walls next to the speakers to absord waves hitting the walls. If you cannot get the speakers out into the room (away from the walls), consider using the stuff anyway.

Here is a discussion of first reflections:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-446798.html

Here is some accoustic foam that I found on them internets out there:

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/LS00626&scode=GS401&CAWELAID=220725581?catargetid=1391617323&cagpspn=pla&gclid=CKrf0sPrl7MCFSmCQgodjCsAXA

If you are doing fancy woodwork in your room, you can turn the accoustic treatment into an architectural element by building fancy frames around them and blending them into the room's features.

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I'm sure this will stay a dream but let's think about it anyway....

First I don't have LaScallas, they would literally be custom built-in. So I was thinking the base bins would be built separately from the mid and highs. This would allow the bins to face forward and look as part of the "architecture" of the cabinets. Then I could have the mid and high hidden behind grill screens so that they can be directional. This design would not allow for toe-in of the bass bins but being that we will be sitting about 15 feet back and the room is not really wide, I don't think much toe-in would be needed. Especially as big as the LaScalla bass bins are.

This would be the only way I would ever get anything bigger than my Fortes in the house, that is to have it built in seamlessly. We are talking wife factor here. She's not going to want an extra pair of washer and dryers in our living room in our 1,000 SF house. In fact, building these in and removing the Fortes would be like getting rid of speakers [;)]

I did wonder if building them in would effect the sounds since most speakers need to be away from the wall.

Chris I would probably have to buy you a case of beer and have you over to set this up because I know nothing about all the tech stuff you just dropped on me [:S]

Anyway, I plan on doing a Google Sketchup of the built-in before I build so I'll look into adding the speaker components and post back.

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This design would not allow for toe-in of the bass bins but being that we will be sitting about 15 feet back and the room is not really wide, I don't think much toe-in would be needed.

On this point, I'll agree to disagree. Experience is an effective tutor.

She's not going to want an extra pair of washer and dryers in our living room in our 1,000 SF house.

Yikes!

I did wonder if building them in would affect the sounds since most speakers need to be away from the wall.


Chris I would probably have to buy you a case of beer and have you over to set this up because I know nothing about all the tech stuff you just dropped on me Tongue Tied

It's always fun dreaming about spending someone else's hard-earned bucks. [:D]

Building-in speakers really does strongly affect their frequency response and timbre since you are eliminating side, top, and rear speaker cabinet re-reflections.and greater-than-90-degree acoustic output. Surprising but true.

As long as you don't live in north McKinney, I'm game. (Otherwise, I'll have to fly Southwest. [ap])

Chris

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Will have to discuss more on the toe-in I guess. I didn't think the low end would be that directional.

I was able to listen to some LaScallas early this year at a store in Hot Springs AK, loved them. They were the size of washer and dryers for sure.

I live in East Dallas over by White Rock Lake. Driving to McKinney is like going to OK [;)]

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Also, if I went the La Scala route (just realized I was spelling La Scala wrong) this setup would be for music first and HT second. If I just built in subs that would be mainly for HT. The whole idea of the subs was that I was already building a bunch of plywood boxes and it would not cost much more, wood wise, to add them.

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Here's kind of my new idea with the La Scalas. I'm not sure about the width of the room so the scale may be off. I have one sub as a base horizontally on the floor.


Posted Image



As far as what sub to build, I was roughly going off something simple such as this.


Posted Image

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I built my Danley DTS10s into a wall. They work just fine. The wall is not your average wall. I put enough material into it to make 3 or 4 walls the same size. I have no rattles or even vibrations. It is such a pain to post photos here I will just give the address for my build thread on AVS. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1300605/bobs-media-room

Wow Bob! That system looks stout! Nice work.

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I live in East Dallas over by White Rock Lake. Driving to McKinney is like going to OK Wink

Hey now - McKinney is the 2nd best place to live.[:P] Though I dont know where they got this random picture from...nothing like the McKinney I see everyday!

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/best-places/2012/snapshots/PL4845744.html

I wonder what their AC bill is in the summer? http://money.cnn.com/video/pf/2012/08/20/pf-best-places-to-live-mckinney-tx.moneymag/index.html?iid=smlrr

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