MikeSt Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Hi Everyone, I was using Heresy II's with Bob Crites Tweeters, and when I hooked up the KLF-20s I just bought, I noticed the midrange was lower. It's like the guitar volume was lowered and the drums are louder. Does anyone know the reason for this? I checked all the drivers and they seem to be working. The KLFs aren't modded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Take the mid drivers from your Heresy ll K701 and drop them into your KLF20 if everything sounds the same there is no problem. These are exactly the same driver, I would also suggest that you swap the tweeters between your Heresy ll (K79) and your KLF20 (also a K79 but with poly diaphragms). See if that makes the difference. I run all titanium diaphragms in my KLF20. My guess is that the issue is with the poly diaphragms. The tweeter diaphragms in your Heresy ll are phenolic (same as the mid diaphragms) Hope this helps. Best regards Moray James. PS: there is a very odd chance that you have crossover issues but this is not very likely the case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speakmeister Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 You might check to make sure the driver is not sitting on the bottom of the cabinet, the KLF-20 mid horn has the nasty habit of breaking off with any type of shock loading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I have had three broken like that. Good point, both the KLf and the CF series have very thin cheaply made horns but the CF have the advantage of using Neo drivers so much lighter. A chopstick into the throat should meet with some solid plastic of the whitches hat. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSt Posted October 20, 2012 Author Share Posted October 20, 2012 I checked and there doesn't seem to be any broken parts in them. I'm also wondering if it's just because I'm in a small room. I'm going to move soon so I picked up the KLFs because they were availble, but for now they stay in the small room that the Heresy's were perfect for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 did you compare your mid drivers from your Heresy to those in the KLF20? That is the easiest way that you have to figure up from down. Your Heresy are the perfect reference as you have no issue with how they sound. The parts are exact drop in exchange. Let us know when you see what's going on. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSt Posted October 21, 2012 Author Share Posted October 21, 2012 i don't understand because the midrange speaker in the Heresy IIs are smaller and wouldn't fit. Sorry, I don't know much about the tech stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 The horns in your Heresy ll are K701 plastic resin versions of the metal K700 used in the Heresy and other speakers like the Cornwal and Forte and others, and no you are right they will not fit into your KLF20 cabinets but the motors will because they are exactly the same and fit the mid horn in your KLF20. So if you pull the horns and swap the drivers .... and I just realised that I have snouts on hand and you likely don't. Your Heresy K701's are designed for bolt on motors and your KLF20 are screw on motors, exact same motor but in the KLF20 they use a snout which is a screw on adapter for the motor as the horn is set up for a standard one inch screw on motor. I am sorry to have confused you. I am just so used to swapping out parts as I have a fair collection here. What you will have to do is drop the mid motors from your KLF20 (remove the screw on adapters) into your Heresy ll and if everthing sounds fine then you have no problem. It is not likely that you do have a problem as the odds of you having two phenolic mid drivers with screwy diaphragms is almost zero. But by checking you can know with certianty what is going on. Sorry If I confused you so please ask if you are unsure about anything I have said here. Good luck and dont worry about changing parts it is super easy to do. Best of luck trouble shooting and best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSt Posted October 21, 2012 Author Share Posted October 21, 2012 Thanks for the info, I will probably try that but since there's such a low chance of it, I'd like to explore other ideas first. Maybe the Heresys just have a louder midrange compared to the KLFs because of the construction of the Heresys? I noticed when I first got them that they had strong midrange. When I got the KLFs I noticed the low frequencys were much tighter and thicker, and the drums in recordings are louder. Maybe my ears interpreted guitar being lower on the KLFs because the Heresys are a different sound, having a more prominent midrange? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Thanks for the info, I will probably try that but since there's such a low chance of it, I'd like to explore other ideas first. Maybe the Heresys just have a louder midrange compared to the KLFs because of the construction of the Heresys? I noticed when I first got them that they had strong midrange. When I got the KLFs I noticed the low frequencys were much tighter and thicker, and the drums in recordings are louder. Maybe my ears interpreted guitar being lower on the KLFs because the Heresys are a different sound, having a more prominent midrange? I think this is correct. I am a Heritage listener through and through, mostly because the midrange is best to me. And with Heritage, the bigger, the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWL Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 "Maybe the Heresys just have a louder midrange compared to the KLFs because of the construction of the Heresys? I noticed when I first got them that they had strong midrange" I think this is correct as well.... as I prefer the sound of the Legend series because they don't have an aggressive midrange compared to the Heritage. Like the Heritage line, the Legend's midrange is silky smooth with tubes but in a different way. Solid state can be a different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 The mid in the heresy is for the most part standing out simply because the bass is not, that said the K700/701 horn is an exponential and long so it does make for gain and for more distortion than in say the mid horn in the KLF20. I think that some folks prefer that sound (of the K700) over a KLF20 horn or a CF3 horn which are both shorter with short conical thraoat sections and then a tractrix flair in the horizontal and an exponential one in the vertical (this provides the desired polars).The way I have my H3 damped they make very respectable bass up on 21 inch high stands and with sub they will outshine a Cornwall and do so with a smaller overall volume. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSt Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 The mid in the heresy is for the most part standing out simply because the bass is not, that said the K700/701 horn is an exponential and long so it does make for gain and for more distortion than in say the mid horn in the KLF20.Can I put a long horn like the K700 in the KLFs for more midrange gain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 sure you can do what ever you want or you can do one of a few other things. You could install ti tweeter diaphragms to replace the leading edge transient back on the mid notes that would be my first choice as the poly tweeter diaphragm is a terrible one. If you still wanted more mid you could play with changing taps on the transformer in the mid section of the network. That would be fare easier than changing the horns. I take it you are one of those who prefers the K700 to the horn in the KLF20? The KLF20 mid horn is a much better horn design and it is capable of being run all the way out to 20 KHz where the K700 is not.You could also use a K700 hor. But if you want a speaker with a K700 why not just use one which was designed for the K700 like a Heresy or a Cornwall or a Forte or a Chorus? Why try to change a speaker which was not designed to use a K700 to use one? Best regards Moray James. PS: don't get me wrong I like the K701 but only when it is modified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 The KLF-20 uses the T-7A with 10dB of attenuation. You might replace that with the universal model from BEC and increase the level 1dB at a time until it suits you. http://www.critesspeakers.com/3636atz.pdf Check back and let me know what tap you like best and I will help you figure out what to change the midrange capacitor to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzannucci Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 The KLF-20 uses the T-7A with 10dB of attenuation. You might replace that with the universal model from BEC and increase the level 1dB at a time until it suits you. http://www.critesspeakers.com/3636atz.pdf Check back and let me know what tap you like best and I will help you figure out what to change the midrange capacitor to. As djk stated you may change the autoformer and that will allow flexibility when using the KLF-20. The KLF-20 is a much more balanced speaker than the Heresy in most instances. The KLF-20 needs a fairly large room to sound good and if you have them in a small room, the bass may be overloading the room and the rest of the sound. The Heresy's are much more forward in the midrange but likely in the smaller room, the bass balances reasonably well especially if the Heresy's are near the floor and not on high stands. If you change the autoformer as djk states, you can change the KLF-20 back to original when you are able to use them in a room that is of a more appropriate size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSt Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 I think I'm going to try replacing the tweeter diaphrams first. I'm not very technical and don't even know how to open the KLFs to get to the attenuator. I'm willing to try it though if it will boost the midrange. I just read on Audiogon someone mentioned the KLF midrange is low. So to boost the midrange my only options are to replace tweeter diaphram and change attenuation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 The crossover on your KLF20 is attached to the back side of the terminal cup (where you connect your speaker cables). Remove the screws holding the cup in place and then the cup and you will have the crossover in your hand. With DJK helping you you can't go wrong. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzannucci Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 I think I'm going to try replacing the tweeter diaphrams first. I'm not very technical and don't even know how to open the KLFs to get to the attenuator. I'm willing to try it though if it will boost the midrange. I just read on Audiogon someone mentioned the KLF midrange is low. So to boost the midrange my only options are to replace tweeter diaphram and change attenuation? Why would you change the tweeter diaphragm if you want more midrange? The tweeter is crossed over at around 7K and is much higher in frequency than the midrange covers. Your ears are too used to the Heresy which is less balanced in sound and much more forward in the midrange. Since you are listening in a small room make sure whatever you do can be reversed if you go to a larger room. You are likely suffering from too much bass in the small room. Unless your midrange / tweeter drivers are toasted (usually they will be out of balance between right and left since they both don't typically fail) there is no reason to think changing the diaphragms is going to fix your issue. It is most likely room and position related. KLFs have been known to have too much midrange/treble in most instances so I am not sure how many people didn't have enough midrange unless the person's response you read is in a similar position as you with the room and positioning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 I think I'm going to try replacing the tweeter diaphrams first. I'm not very technical and don't even know how to open the KLFs to get to the attenuator. I'm willing to try it though if it will boost the midrange. I just read on Audiogon someone mentioned the KLF midrange is low. So to boost the midrange my only options are to replace tweeter diaphram and change attenuation? Why would you change the tweeter diaphragm if you want more midrange? The tweeter is crossed over at around 7K and is much higher in frequency than the midrange covers. Your ears are too used to the Heresy which is less balanced in sound and much more forward in the midrange. Since you are listening in a small room make sure whatever you do can be reversed if you go to a larger room. You are likely suffering from too much bass in the small room. Unless your midrange / tweeter drivers are toasted (usually they will be out of balance between right and left since they both don't typically fail) there is no reason to think changing the diaphragms is going to fix your issue. It is most likely room and position related. KLFs have been known to have too much midrange/treble in most instances so I am not sure how many people didn't have enough midrange unless the person's response you read is in a similar position as you with the room and positioning. I would consider this opinion, it's what I think also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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