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MikeSt

KLF-20 Midrange is lacking

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How a person will describe what they hear is not always how someone else would describe the same thing so it can be hard to tell what is going on by reading a thread. The poly diaphragm in the KLF series is a vey poor tweeter diaphragm and the weak spot in those speakers, replacement with a ti diaphrqgm takes these speakers to a new level of performance. A tweeter can have an astounding impact upon how a speaker system sounds.This is especially so when the tweeter diaphragm is as poor sounding as the stock poly KLF diaphragm is.

I agree that the OP may be focused upon the balance of the Heresy. I also agree that the bass shift in balance between these two speakers may be playing a part in all of this. A very fast and easy way to tell would be to stuff the vents (or tape them over with some packing tape) of the KLF20 and then have a listen. This will drop the level of the bass output and the OP can quickly judge if this has been a move in the right direction or not. Lets see what the OP thinks when he does what ever he decides to do. Best regards Moray James.

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I turn the bass all the way down because I'm in an apartment.The bass is a little louder than the Heresy even with it turned down, but I'm pretty sure the midrange is still lower.

I like the prominent midrange on the Heresy, and anything to make the KLFs sound similar would be great. But I don't want to ruin the overall sound of the speaker by boosting midrange if it wasn't intended too. I could just use both sets of speakers if I have to.

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since you have found the sound that you like in the K701 mid horn why not
just stick with that? You could buy a second set of Heresy ll or you
could buy or trade for a set of Forte which have the same midrange and
tweeter as your Heresy ll but which have deeper bass extension? The Forte is
one of the very best balanced loudspeakers Klipsch has ever produced. Either option would be a lot easier than experimenting with the crossovers in your KLF20.

Since you have the Crites ti diaphragms in your Heresy ll why not borrow the tweeters from Heresy for a listen and put them into the KLF20 and see what you think? For that matter you can also swap out the mid drivers from you r Heresy ll into the KLF20 (they are identical) and this will tell you if there is a problem with the KLF20 mid drivers or if it is just the inherent ballance of the KLF20 that you don't like. Nothing to buy and lots of answers, should not take you more than a couple of hours start to finish. Hope this helps. Best regards Moray James.

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Taking the woofers out of the KLF and stuffing the cabinet with Poly Batting from Walmart or some craft store may significantly tighten and remove a lot of the boom from the bass. There is no easy way to cut the bass, just add mid and treble.

There is also the possibility of putting something such as an L-Pad on the bottom terminals of the KLF (removing the straps) and using the lpad to control the amount of the woofer output tying the mid and tweeter direct to the speaker wire. It does mess with Q but probably would not be an issue in this situation.

As far as changing the midrange drivers. I believe the drivers internally are the same but from what I remember, the mount was different, one screwed together and one a screw on mount.

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Peter: the simple fast easy way to reduce the loudspeakers bass output is to block off the reflex vents. Stuff them of block them off with some packing tape. Easy to do easy to undo and the OP can get an idea of what this does to the balance of the speaker. If this works for the Op then I agree with you the OP should block off the vents in a way that is reversable and then stuff the speakers tightly with home fiberglass insulation (pink or yellow) as this is by far the most effective material for the least amount of money.

You are right the KLF20/30 mid horn takes a standard male 1 inch thread driver. The driver used however is exactly the same one used on the K701 in the Heresy ll but is fitted with a threaded snout adapter so swapping driver is just a matter of a few screws.

The KlF20 is a very good well balanced loudspeaker one which I prefer to both of the Forte models. The KLF20 does however have rear firing vents and like the Forte with its rear firing passive is sensitivve to its proxiity to the front wall directly behind the speakers as well as to corner placement. I think that in a small room a KLF20 is going to end up against the wall or in the corners which won't work well. I actually took the vents off the back of one oof my two sets of KLF20 and put them on the front. Thses were for my daughter who is still in University and living in small quarters and this allows her to place the speaker in closer to the wall and or corner if needed. this was simple to do as I had removed all four baffles to brace the cabinet. If any are interested here s a link to have a look. This was a fast and dirty job but effective I hade to have them ready to travel off to the east coast in short order. Best regards Moray James.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=372783&highlight=klf20

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I found out my audio interface for the mac has eq in the firmware and used that to boost the midrange. Sounds much better for music played in itunes and other programs, but doesn't help with the turntable obviously. Turning down the bass all the way on the amp still doesn't help the midrange, so I don't think the problem is the bass. The midrange is just not as prominent as the Heresy probably because the KLFs were made to emphasize lows and highs for rock, which is what most people like, but not me.

I heard the Cornwalls have a strong midrange, stronger than the Forte or Chorus, is this true? I could sell the KLFs and get those.

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good simple fix. it does not however answer any of your questions. You are luckier than most in that you have been able to identify that you really like the sound of the K700. The Cw''s use the K700 and the CW ll use the K600 a larger version of the K700 (I am not sure at what date the CW switched to using the K600 horn) . I do not agree with your acessment about the KLF20 being designed to emphasize the bass they are as I said a well balanced loudspeaker with a less than good tweeter diaphragm which I do think was intentional.Placement will make or break a KLF speaker.

Perhaps you could share ecaxtly what it is you hope to achieve? What is it that you are looking for? I can tell you that my modified Heresy 3 with a pair of subs can outperform any Cornwall or CW ll that I have heard. If you like the sound balance of the Heresy ll you will like the sound balance of both the original models of Forte and the Chorus as they both use the same K700 mid horn as do the H3. Why not stick with the horn that you like? Best regards Moray James.

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I just want to boost the mids of the KLFs because I like the way they sound, I just want stronger mids cause the electric guitars sound like they're turned down. I already have the KLFs away from the wall. I read that some prefer Cornwall for rock but most don't. I don't think I would like a speaker that the majority like for rock. I want the mids strong and bass moderate. KLF sounds good just lacks mid.

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DJK has given you the information that you need to make midrange level changes and has offered to assist you with making changes to your speaker mid crossover to let you choose the level and then correct the crossover frequency (changing one changes the other). You can buy the parts you will need from Bob Crites. You might want to have someone with some experience have a listen and give you a hand. I have owned Forte and Forte ll, two sets of KLF20 and a set of CF3 a pair of late model Heresy and a pair of Heresy 3. The KLF20 are not as forward in the mid as a Heresy ll but they are smooth and well balanced so something does not add up here. I think that it would serve you well to decide which horns you like the sound of and stick with them and not concern yourseld with what other people think including me. But the only way you can do that is to listen to a bunch of different speakers and get a feel for how they sound to you. You already know that you like the K700 so there are lots of Klipsch with that mid horn so check them out and see what you think. Forte Chorus Cornwal will get you started. Good luck and best regards Moray James.

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The mid is padded by 10dB in the stock network.

It is capable of ripping your face off if that's what you want.

Change the mid cap to 3µF and set the attenuation to 7dB on the BEC autoformer, it will have the tonal balance of a Heresy at that point.

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Peter: the simple fast easy way to reduce the loudspeakers bass output is to block off the reflex vents. Stuff them of block them off with some packing tape. Easy to do easy to undo and the OP can get an idea of what this does to the balance of the speaker. If this works for the Op then I agree with you the OP should block off the vents in a way that is reversable and then stuff the speakers tightly with home fiberglass insulation (pink or yellow) as this is by far the most effective material for the least amount of money.

When blocking the ports, you raise tuning and reduce the low bass output. This is a good idea if it was only low bass output that was at issue.

Stuffing the cabinet more and blocking the ports would cause the output to attenuated somewhat higher in the frequency range.

Outside of DJK's modification of the crossover to raise the output, I still think the l-pad idea on the woofers is a quick, easily reversible, and inexpensive test (possibly fix). Considering the KLFs are being used in an apartment, I don't think the tuning changes will be of large consequence due to the addition of the lpad. DJK's idea is the best in that the midrange output could be adaptable so if the KLFs are ever used in a larger room or with different room reflective values, the balance could be restored or modified. It just involves a lot more work and knowhow.

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Peter the idea was to quickly and easily give the OP a chance to see what a shift iin tonal balance would do and if that seemed to take things in the right direction. More of a fishing expedition to see what the OP thought.The original complaint was that guitars sounded somewhat mute so no realistic amount of cabinet stuffing is going to alter that. I think that the OP simply likes the sound and the balance of the K701 in his H2. The mid horn in the KLF20 is a wide band design capable of being run ot to 20KHz. with a different driver (look at the CF2) and if the OP wishes as Dennis said he can adjust the level of the mid horn to suit his taste. I agree with you that this is the best fix as long as the OP wants to go down that path but it was offered early on and there was no apparent interest. I think that a pair of Forte with an almost identical size footprint to the KLF20 would be the best option, plenty of bass and with the mid and high reproduced with exactly the same horns sounding much the same as the OP's H2 and no need for any EQ.

On an aside note after playing with various vent tuning with my KLF20 I plan to block the vents and heavilyy stuff the cabinets with fiberglass and give them a listen to as sealed cabinets. Given the Qt of the drivers the cabinet is on the small side and a sub is required for the deep notes anyway. If I like what I hear I will experiment with high density fiberglass dampling like I used in my H3 which can now make good bass even up on 21" stands. Good luck to the OP hope he has some fun listening to some new (to him) speakers. Best regards Moray James.

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" the l-pad idea on the woofers"

Changes the Qts of the drivers, thus requiring a different box size and tuning.

Not recommended.

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Could this be used in a sealed cabinet to adjust or fine tune the speaker system in the room or would there be issues with this also? Thanks Dennis. Best regards Moray James.

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Not as bad a problem with a sealed box, but it is still an issue.

This is also why you need to be careful when using woofer inductors with a different DCR.

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The mid is padded by 10dB in the stock network.

It is capable of ripping your face off if that's what you want.

Change the mid cap to 3µF and set the attenuation to 7dB on the BEC autoformer, it will have the tonal balance of a Heresy at that point.

Ok, I'm going to try that but since I'm moving soon will wait till I get the bigger room. Using the EQ is ok for now, but I imagine that will be better. Thanks all!

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Hello, been an avid reader but never posted. I recently purchased a pair of KLF20 that need a little TLC. I noticed one of the mids gets a little static when I just turn it up a little. Not constant but definitely noticeable. I figured probably needs a new diaphragm but I had a K55-V laying around and decided to hook it up in it's place and I noticed the same static. This is only on one speaker, the other is fine. So could this be something with the crossover?

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21 minutes ago, Mexibeetle said:

Hello, been an avid reader but never posted. I recently purchased a pair of KLF20 that need a little TLC. I noticed one of the mids gets a little static when I just turn it up a little. Not constant but definitely noticeable. I figured probably needs a new diaphragm but I had a K55-V laying around and decided to hook it up in it's place and I noticed the same static. This is only on one speaker, the other is fine. So could this be something with the crossover?

You sure it isn't your amp/ source/ cabling?   Have you tried another pair of speakers to test this (swapped speakers right to left to see if problem follows) ?  Does the static come on while turning up volume and then go away once a volume is set? 

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"Static" during a volume change sounds just like a symptom of a dirty volume control.  If that's in fact what's happening, an easy and quick remedy is to at least ensure no program material is playing and run the volume control fully both directions, back and forth several times, fairly rapidly.  Should do this occasionally with anything that uses potentiometers: bass, treble, balance, and volume.  It isn't necessary on newer gear which uses rotary encoders but the older equipment needs oxidation "wiped" away occasionally.

 

If it persists and is only on one channel, the first thing to do (as has been mentioned) is to swap channels with the speakers and see if it stays on the amplifier channel (now the other speaker) or "follows" the same speaker to the other amp channel, in which case it's in the one speaker itself (or its feed wire connections).

 

No sense yet in providing further things to investigate 'til a result is obtained trying these things first.

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