JamesP Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Hey guys I just bought a pair of Klipsch KF-28 floor speakers for my 'home theater' setup. Basically it is just them for now and a receiver. There are two pairs of connections on the back of the speakers. I am at a loss on why there are two pairs? Shouldn't there be just one, and what am I supposed to do with with the pair of them? Currently I have the speaker wire running to the 'subwoofer' labeled connections but the speakers seem to be playing out of all 3. The receiver I have them hooked up to is a new Denon that is supposed to be pushing around 150/channel but I must say I'm very disappointed. At 50% volume on my receiver it sounds what I consider 'normal' and to get them close to 'loud' I have to have it at 100%. I've never experienced this in my life, rarely have i needed to have my receiver push itself past the 50% mark. Anyway I'm not sure if these two issues/questions are related. The communities expert advice would be much appreciated. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuBXeRo Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Hey guys I just bought a pair of Klipsch KF-28 floor speakers for my 'home theater' setup. Basically it is just them for now and a receiver. There are two pairs of connections on the back of the speakers. I am at a loss on why there are two pairs? Shouldn't there be just one, and what am I supposed to do with with the pair of them? Currently I have the speaker wire running to the 'subwoofer' labeled connections but the speakers seem to be playing out of all 3. The receiver I have them hooked up to is a new Denon that is supposed to be pushing around 150/channel but I must say I'm very disappointed. At 50% volume on my receiver it sounds what I consider 'normal' and to get them close to 'loud' I have to have it at 100%. I've never experienced this in my life, rarely have i needed to have my receiver push itself past the 50% mark. Anyway I'm not sure if these two issues/questions are related. The communities expert advice would be much appreciated. Thanks! The speakers you bought have two sets of binding posts because they have the ability to be biamped or biwired. One set of binding posts is connected to the tweeter and the other is connected to the 2 woofers. There is a metal strap between the tweeter and woofer posts so that you only need to wire up 1 set of terminals. The strap creates a parallel connection and allows power to be fed to both drivers at the same time. Speaker manufacturers do this with some speakers so that the owner can power the drivers with separate amplifiers or separate channels of power within an amp. This can be a beneficial use on a speaker for a multitude of reasons. You can also biwire. Biwiring completes the same task as the binding strap but with more wires. If you remove the binding strap and connect 1 wire (neg/pos) to the top posts and 1 wire (neg/pos) to the bottom posts and then connect both wires to the same pos/neg terminal on the amplifier/receiver, uyou are creating the same parallel connection the strap does but instead of on the speaker you are doing it at the receiver/amplifier. Basically you twist the 2 positive leads together and the 2 negative leads and put it to the 1 positive on the amp/receiver and the negative to the other. Biwiring is mostly for aethetics and a selling point to the uneducated. Nothing is really gained sonically although i am sure someone swears they hear a difference. By subwoofer connection you mean the woofer terminals and its playing out of all 3 drivers because the binding strap is sending power to both sets of terminals. What model Denon do you have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesP Posted November 25, 2012 Author Share Posted November 25, 2012 The speakers you bought have two sets of binding posts because they have the ability to be biamped or biwired. One set of binding posts is connected to the tweeter and the other is connected to the 2 woofers. There is a metal strap between the tweeter and woofer posts so that you only need to wire up 1 set of terminals. The strap creates a parallel connection and allows power to be fed to both drivers at the same time. Speaker manufacturers do this with some speakers so that the owner can power the drivers with separate amplifiers or separate channels of power within an amp. This can be a beneficial use on a speaker for a multitude of reasons. You can also biwire. Biwiring completes the same task as the binding strap but with more wires. If you remove the binding strap and connect 1 wire (neg/pos) to the top posts and 1 wire (neg/pos) to the bottom posts and then connect both wires to the same pos/neg terminal on the amplifier/receiver, uyou are creating the same parallel connection the strap does but instead of on the speaker you are doing it at the receiver/amplifier. Basically you twist the 2 positive leads together and the 2 negative leads and put it to the 1 positive on the amp/receiver and the negative to the other. Biwiring is mostly for aethetics and a selling point to the uneducated. Nothing is really gained sonically although i am sure someone swears they hear a difference. By subwoofer connection you mean the woofer terminals and its playing out of all 3 drivers because the binding strap is sending power to both sets of terminals. What model Denon do you have? I have a Denon AVR-1613 To be honest I am probably going to take it back. The app for for the ipad/iphone really sucks imo. I can't figure out how to access the equalizer settings I am used to and don't care for the interface of the menu through the TV. I could live with all of that if it sounded great but right now it feels like it's barely pushing my kf-28s which is strange because its pushing some pretty decent wattage. I think I follow you on the speaker posts. Basically if you want to BI Amp them you can. Since I am using a single receiver there really is not point, I can wire either one and it will power them the same. Is that it in a nutshell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted November 25, 2012 Moderators Share Posted November 25, 2012 I think I follow you on the speaker posts. Basically if you want to BI Amp them you can. Since I am using a single receiver there really is not point, I can wire either one and it will power them the same. Is that it in a nutshell? You got it exactly. [] Welcome to the forums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhurd Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 That AVR is pushing 75w per channel, which still should be plenty for those speakers. Have you ran Audyssey? I also believe there are other apps out there for the denons if you look. You might try a google search and see what else is out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuBXeRo Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 The KF-26 speakers are very sensitive at 97db. This means that you dont need as much power as you would if you were driving less sensitive speakers. Each 3db increase in sensitivity means you need half as much power. Vice versa, if you have speakers 3db less efficient (94 db instead of 97db), you would need twice as much power to achieve the same volume at a constant listening distance. The AVR-1613 is a very entry level receiver IMO and is priced for entry level. Everyone has different budgets and you have to work with what you have available. Your receiver, provided everything is calibrated correctly should be able to push those 2 speakers easily. Once you add more channels on that is when the tides turn. 75 watts is a good amount of power for a 97db efficiency speaker. It sounds to me like you have settings that are incorrect. Make sure your speakers are hooked up correctly. Use the left/right channel connections and make sure you didn't reverse the polarities. In some cases (design dependent of the receiver) the signals will cancel out and present degraded performance. What is you listening environment like? How far is your listening position from the speakers? Also, i wanted to note, some of things we are talking about are somewhat technical. Do not feel embarrassed if you don't understand, please please please ask if you dont understand. I dont care if you ask 3 times, i will try and explain it in different ways so that you can understand. What works for me may not for you. Also, others will chime in tohelp too! we are all apart of this forum because most of us have a passion for this hobby and enjoy seeing others enjoying their setups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesP Posted November 26, 2012 Author Share Posted November 26, 2012 The KF-26 speakers are very sensitive at 97db. This means that you dont need as much power as you would if you were driving less sensitive speakers. Each 3db increase in sensitivity means you need half as much power. Vice versa, if you have speakers 3db less efficient (94 db instead of 97db), you would need twice as much power to achieve the same volume at a constant listening distance. The AVR-1613 is a very entry level receiver IMO and is priced for entry level. Everyone has different budgets and you have to work with what you have available. Your receiver, provided everything is calibrated correctly should be able to push those 2 speakers easily. Once you add more channels on that is when the tides turn. 75 watts is a good amount of power for a 97db efficiency speaker. It sounds to me like you have settings that are incorrect. Make sure your speakers are hooked up correctly. Use the left/right channel connections and make sure you didn't reverse the polarities. In some cases (design dependent of the receiver) the signals will cancel out and present degraded performance. What is you listening environment like? How far is your listening position from the speakers? Also, i wanted to note, some of things we are talking about are somewhat technical. Do not feel embarrassed if you don't understand, please please please ask if you dont understand. I dont care if you ask 3 times, i will try and explain it in different ways so that you can understand. What works for me may not for you. Also, others will chime in tohelp too! we are all apart of this forum because most of us have a passion for this hobby and enjoy seeing others enjoying their setups. Alright I double checked the wiring and that is definitely connected properly. I went over all the settings again and I believe I have everything setup right. I even used the audio config setup where you place this mic they provide around the room. My listening environment is in my living room which opens to the breakfast/kitchen area and is quite large. I am probably 15 feet away from the speakers when sitting on the couch. Tile floors throughout. Also Ivan asked about Audyssey and yes I have run it and had the EQ setup for that. However, I tried disabling that a bit ago and use the manual eq. I was able to get a slight bump in the overall 'volume' of the sound coming out of the speakers and to be honest it sound better but still i must run the EQ at a minimum of 50% to get sound at what I consider a normal level and at 75% when watching tv and things like that. And we are not talking about really blowing down the house even at that. It takes nearly max volume to get it to that level. I have always had a fairly decent sterio compared to what most people run. Not high end by any means but I've had/used probably 6-8 receivers over the past 20 years and normally once I get around the 25-30% range things are quite loud and at 50% is extremely loud. So I can't help but feel something is definitely wrong with my situation here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuBXeRo Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 i never run auto eq setups. I trust my ears. The machine is programmed to listen for certain things, it cant interpret what you hear. My biggest suggestion to you at this point is to completely reset the receiver to factory settings and begin changing your settings. Wonky things happen sometimes and there are a lot of options that can get changed by accident. What are your media sources? This plays a role in things as they have different gains often like comparing an MP3 player to a DVD or Blu Disc Player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TasDom Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Check the trim levels for each speaker. It should read anywhere between -12 to +12 The auto calibration can set these lower than you are use to.Bump each one up the same amount to compensate for a lower setting on your volume control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesP Posted November 26, 2012 Author Share Posted November 26, 2012 Check the trim levels for each speaker. It should read anywhere between -12 to +12 The auto calibration can set these lower than you are use to.Bump each one up the same amount to compensate for a lower setting on your volume control. Not sure I understand what the trim levels are. Is this something that might possibly be adjusted in the receivers settings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesP Posted November 26, 2012 Author Share Posted November 26, 2012 i never run auto eq setups. I trust my ears. The machine is programmed to listen for certain things, it cant interpret what you hear. My biggest suggestion to you at this point is to completely reset the receiver to factory settings and begin changing your settings. Wonky things happen sometimes and there are a lot of options that can get changed by accident. What are your media sources? This plays a role in things as they have different gains often like comparing an MP3 player to a DVD or Blu Disc Player I have a blu ray player via hdmi and a cable box via hdmi all my connections are through hdmi Any suggestions on an 'inexpensive' receiver that would work good for a 2 speaker + future sub setup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TasDom Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Not sure I understand what the trim levels are. Is this something that might possibly be adjusted in the receivers settings? Yes, it would be thru the receiver's setting. If you still have the manual it is on page 98 95 or thru the Denon web site via pdf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Remember that the volume increase is on a log scale and for that size room, -20 is not bad. And different sources such as music, movie, and digital media may vary by 10-15 db at the same volume setting on the avr. -30 on the avr is around 70-75 db at best which is not loud for most people. If it is a new setup, it may take some time to get use to everything. I have some souces that I can listen to a -15 which dose not appear loud and other sources at -15 which are extremely loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmanicioto Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 OP, I will tell you from experience that I have with a similar setup. . . .Do not run that reciever outside of 5.1/zone2 mode. Once you switch to biamp or 7.1 the volume will cut literally in half. I have called Denon on multiple occasions and they are clueless. so I gave up on biamping. As far as the volume goes, I have been learning more as I go, but had similar concerns as you do. I have found that when Audessy runs, it will throw your levels to negatives. You can bump the channel volume, but I think I read that 0 is reference level, so to adjust the test tones to be 75 or 85 db at reference level and that is "properly" setup I guess. Also the dynamic volume thing is another thing to look at. If off, it will bring the volume down. If you select anything else, the volume goes up, which I do not understand and Denon has yet to respond technically to me about. They sound like a bunch of clueless stoned teenagers so I gave up with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chipster Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 I have dual posts as well. (VF-36) speakers. Can I connect another set of speakers since the connection is in parallel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zip Driver Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 For model R26F with 2 pairs of binding posts, do I set the ohm to 8 or 4 ohms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 48 minutes ago, Zip Driver said: For model R26F with 2 pairs of binding posts, do I set the ohm to 8 or 4 ohms? Yes...8 and see what you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vhiremath Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 Can I connect metal strap to bi wire from atmos connection to speaker connection in back of speaker? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon C Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 Can anyone show me a diagram of how to hook up my F3's to my sub and then my head unit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottrek Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 I wanted to know is on a pair of RF-52 klipsch speakers, I did not receive the binding post metal ones when I got theses from family member. Nobody can remember them can I jump wire the 2 instead of metal binding posts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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