Deang Posted June 14, 2002 Share Posted June 14, 2002 I sure don't see any in this pic -- so where is it? LaScala ------------------ Deanf>s> Cary AE-25 * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * RF-7 Klipschcones® f>s> Exigency is the matriarch of ingenious contrivancef>c>s> This message has been edited by deang on 06-14-2002 at 11:12 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted June 14, 2002 Share Posted June 14, 2002 Klipsch has been using that same pic of the LaScala for over 20 years in its advertising. Look at the logo on it. If Klipsch says they are using MDF in them now, then they are...I don't know where, but they wouldn't say it if they weren't using it. No big deal to me, though...I ain't gonna buy any new ones anyway!! ------------------ I can now receive private messages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted June 15, 2002 Share Posted June 15, 2002 kinda disappointed that they are using MDF... ------------------ -justin SoundWise Support A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers I am an amateur, if it is professional; ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5 Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted June 15, 2002 Share Posted June 15, 2002 MDF Cabinets appear to be the industry standard for speaker enclosures. ------------------ KLIPSCH IS MUSICf> My Systems f>s>c> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oosting Posted June 15, 2002 Share Posted June 15, 2002 Go to your local plywood supply store and you'll find out why MDF is prefered over plywood. It costs less than half as much as plywood. Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted June 15, 2002 Share Posted June 15, 2002 just because speaker companies use MDF often does not mean it is the best speaker cabinet build. Ask HDBRbuilder, he practically wrote a book about why MDF is not the way to go over plywood. ------------------ -justin SoundWise Support A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers I am an amateur, if it is professional; ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5 Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted June 15, 2002 Share Posted June 15, 2002 of course plywood is better quality than mdf, but as oosting says its cost is twice as much. got a cost/benefit trade-off here that happens quite often when a company is in biz to make a profit. ------------------ My Home Systems Page This message has been edited by boa12 on 06-15-2002 at 12:18 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted June 15, 2002 Share Posted June 15, 2002 deang, The solution is very obvious. Buy a used vintage pair of LaScala's. The cost savings should allow you to keep your Klipschcones,(just in case you don't like the LaScala, which I doubt), and have both for a direct comparison, then sell the one you don't like to recover and move on. Vintage Belles are also an alternative here. Both are the only real alternative to Khorns for a "fully" horn loaded speaker. You're already using tubes, so the resulting sound will steal your heart and ears from the Kcones. JMHO. Klipsch out. 2 Channel system 1974 Belle Klipsch Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondogs Cary SLP90L Preamplifier Asusa PP-1 Phono preamplifier,modified Rega 3 turntable, Rega 300 tonearm; Grado Rega Planet CD player AudioQuest Bedrock speaker cables Silver Audio Hyacinth interconnects Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oosting Posted June 15, 2002 Share Posted June 15, 2002 Sure, it costs twice as much but, if it takes 4-4X8 sheets of plywood to make one LaScala, I'd pay the difference in the cost of materials ($200-300 per speaker). Labor should be about the same. I agree, buy the used vintage stuff. It's much better. Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted June 16, 2002 Share Posted June 16, 2002 I dunna know about MDF and Ply, but by the time you add labor, what is the real price difference in the end? Especially the quanity they buy in. Also, what about the other speakers, what are they made of. jazman, I was in Antioch on Wed-Fri for a funeral, the area is sure growing! I saw a 25 year old 4 br., 2 bth in Pittsburgh for $307,000!!! It is MAD, MAD I tell you! ------------------ Receiver: Sony STR-DE675 CD player: Sony CDP-CX300 Turntable: Technics SL-J3 with Audio-Technica TR485U Speakers: JBL HLS-610 Subwoofer: JBL 4648A-8 Sub amp: Parts Express 180 watt Center/surrounds: Teac 3-way bookshelfs Yes, it sucks, but better to come. KLIPSCH soon! My computer is better than my stereo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted June 16, 2002 Share Posted June 16, 2002 kenratboy, Next time you're in the area on a more pleasant journey, send an email in advance and bring some music with you. I keep the 2A3 Moondogs warmed up and ready to play most days. And you're right, property values have climbed quite a bit with the growth, but that's California in general, especially the SF Bay area. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted June 16, 2002 Share Posted June 16, 2002 I like MDF, its density (46 lbs/ft^3) is higher that the highest quality birch 13-ply (42 lbs/ft^3) so for a fix volume of material it has more mass making it more difficult to drive into spurious resonance (remember Newton's F=MA?). MDF has a lower elastic modulus (350ksi) relative to premium birch ply (1500ksi). since the speed of sound in a solid is propotional to the modulus this means that MDF is better at damping in-panel standing waves. MDF is an isotropic solid, it's properties are the same in all directions so placement is a non issue plywood is anisotropic, properties perpendicular to the laminations are not same as in-plane MDF comes in 1" thickness, plywood does too but you have to by a truckload to get it. So I'm in disagreement with you all. nothing new around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowooo Posted June 16, 2002 Share Posted June 16, 2002 And it's cheaper too! ------------------ 2 Channel System: Klipsch Epic CF-2s McIntosh C-15 Preamplifier Adcom GFA 5500 Amplifier Music Hall MMF-5 Table Adcom GCD 700 CD Adcom ACE-515 AC Enhancer Transparent Audio Cabless> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted June 16, 2002 Author Share Posted June 16, 2002 Damn john -- you be the man! You actually put a smile on my face. You know this kind of stuff but can't help me find one redeeming quality of a metal cone You're holding out on me aren't you ------------------ Deanf>s> Cary AE-25 * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * RF-7 Klipschcones® f>s> Exigency is the matriarch of ingenious contrivancef>c>s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted June 16, 2002 Share Posted June 16, 2002 jazman, I appreciate your invitation! I will keep that in mind. ------------------ Receiver: Sony STR-DE675 CD player: Sony CDP-CX300 Turntable: Technics SL-J3 with Audio-Technica TR485U Speakers: JBL HLS-610 Subwoofer: JBL 4648A-8 Sub amp: Parts Express 180 watt Center/surrounds: Teac 3-way bookshelfs Yes, it sucks, but better to come. KLIPSCH soon! My computer is better than my stereo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted June 17, 2002 Share Posted June 17, 2002 dean- I didn't say I didn't like metal cones. we were talking about *coating* them ps-wood products are not *true* elastic solids, but the parameter (modulus) can still be measured. This message has been edited by John Warren on 06-17-2002 at 05:28 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted June 17, 2002 Share Posted June 17, 2002 quote: Originally posted by ShapeShifter: MDF Cabinets appear to be the industry standard for speaker enclosures. hmmm...thought that was a pretty accurate statement? Seem to recall that one of the moderators had stated the same. Oh well, live and learn. Wes ------------------ KLIPSCH IS MUSICf> My Systems f>s>c> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted June 17, 2002 Share Posted June 17, 2002 This thread reminds me of the Hardee's ad- "Real chickens don't have nuggets" This message has been edited by dndphishin on 06-17-2002 at 06:57 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted June 17, 2002 Share Posted June 17, 2002 IMHO, The ONLY redeeming quality MDF actually DOES have in loudspeaker cabinet applications IS its sonic qualities...and this is directly due to its consistent density throughout...in every other way (except cost), it is inferior to high-grade plywoods. 1. It's veneers (when veneered to LOOK like wood) don't tend to stay on it for any great length of time. 2. If it ever gets wet...it is history!! 3. If one bashes a corner, it is almost irrepairable damage...and is much more susceptible to greater damage from a small bashing than plywood is. And you can't just wet it a little and swell minor dent damage back out with an iron like on plywood. 4. It doesn't hold most glues, nails, or screws as well as plywood...and the likelihood of a screw-head being "torqued off", broken screws from over-torqueing, strip-out of the "threads" in the media when replacing components, etc...is much more likely with MDF...due to that same great density we like for sonic efficiency so much! (also a problem in baltic birch...for the same reason) 5. It is a ***** to sand down flush when leaving overhangs on lap joints...and the resulting sanded edges look like crap when attempting to apply a nice smooth finish...and seams tend to never get hidden well after a finish is applied...unless one gobs on a "flexible finish" like urethanes. 6. It is heavy as hell (a by-product of the consistent density mentioned in this thread above). 7. It is ugly as hell...too! 8. Sawing, routing, and sanding it is an exercise in filling one's lungs(with no dustmask), eyes(even with eye protection), ears, and every nook and cranny in ones being with a fine annoying sawdust that clogs the pores of the skin very badly...no matter HOW GOOD one's dust collection system is!! 9. It is full of chemicals that exhaust out of it over time...definitely not good for homes with chemical allergy problems within them!! (this is also why it tends to have its applied veneers lift off from it as these chemicals try to escape it and are trapped under the veneer, creating bubbles) 10. It is very hard on sharpened tools, like router bits, saw blades, etc...dulling them up rapidly!! (but so is BALTIC birch...so damned much glue in it!!, BUT baltic birch is also heavy and dense as hell...making it a good sonic quality media, too...and it actually, on occassion, looks good!!) BUT, MDF DOES have great sonic qualities and IS cheap!! And, it is much less likely to provide as much waste as some other products in the culling arena prior to building something from it(ie., sheets of plywood that have interior veneer separation, etc...but these can normally be returned for credit or replacement, too)...it is ALSO a media in which voids won't be found(as in lower quality plywood interior veneers)...and plywood that is VOID FREE is getting increasingly difficult to find...and is also rapidly going up in price, too!! As for sonic qualities...especially in the resonance factor involved in the LaScala...if one were to use 1" plywood of the same type as the 3/4" 9-ply used in the LaScala JUST FOR THE SIDES ALONE, the torsional rigidity increase of that change ALONE would likely overcome any of the problems associated with sonic resonance!! All of the other panels used in the LaScala have something providing more rigidity for them except for the sides...at their front edge (sides of bass horn mouth), in particular!! Something to be considered by the DIY crowd!! In using the 1" plywood for the sides, the only other part that needs dimensional altering is the top of the cabinet...every other part retains its original cut dimensions!! The bottom and top of the Lascala bass bin are reinforced by the doghouse attachments, as is the back of the cabinet, where the doghouse is attached...the tweeter/mid-horn front is reinforced along all of its edges by the construction design... but it could probably benifit some from being thicker, too! A simple act of reinforcing the inside of the upper part of the LaScala cabinet(where the tweeter, mid-horn, and crossover network reside) with glue blocks running from front to rear on those inside seams would be a great resonance damping addition, too! The LaScala sides just don't have enough rigidity at the front edges of the bass bin section...that's all! Simple fix, too! The Cornwall is the only other "heritage" model that could really see benefit from a change in thickness of material used for it...the main box would greatly benefit from resonance problems if it was built from 1" plywood instead of 3/4"...mostly due to the sides of the cabinet...they are so long (tall)!! Yet another thing for the DIY bunch to consider! The saddest thing about plywood over the last decade or so is its increasing lack of quality construction by its manufacturers, and increasing price...and its changeover to poplar interior plys instead of hardwood interior plys...I DON'T like soft poplar interior plys OR Luan(commonly called Phillipine Mahoghany..even though it is not even kin to REAL mahoghany!!), or any other pithy wood for interior plys!! Also the interior void problem as mentioned above, is an ongoing problem in plywood...a problem TOTALLY associated with lack of quality control in the manufacturing process today!! There's my two-cents' worth on the subject...AGAIN...LOL! ------------------ I can now receive private messages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipschguy Posted June 17, 2002 Share Posted June 17, 2002 My biggest concern is the toughness factor. But, I could be happy with either cabinet. Just baby the veneered MDF a little more. This message has been edited by Klipschguy on 06-17-2002 at 09:32 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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