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CF-3 Speaker & the best receiver/amp option when on a budget)


z4j

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Hello. Just made an investment into Gen.II CF-3’s. Problem is they sound great, but I’ve been reading they can sound much better and I’m already addicted to attempting to do so (newbie 101 right?). I currently have a mid to lower end Yamaha receiver (I believe a HTR-5450-- 5.1 75W per). The horns are very “bright” and the bass is actually lacking a bit when both the bass and treble are at zero (12:00 position). My optimal setting right now is the treble at 9:00 and the bass a 3:00. I know I’m not doing the speakers great justice and was hoping for advice on setting up a bit more properly while keeping my savings in check.

My budget options I believe I know of while attempting to keep this first step under $600 (and not afraid of used equipment from the right seller)-

1) Just get a better tuner (New options under $600 worth it at all? Best used option to support the CF-3’s)

2) A tube situation (Don’t think I want to wait for the warm up though as my 4 year old keep me in check for about a two to three song session :-)

3) Intergraded

4) Tuner/amp/pre-amp (keep my current tuner and look for a use amp/pre-amp)I’ll admit I’m new at “better” sound and Best Buy was about a “high end” as I ever got so please take it easy on me…. Any other option I should pursue? $600 not even close? Anything else to get me on the right path?

I listen to mainly CD (my collection of six hundred in two Sony mega changer) or MP3/MP4s. Don’t cringe J We all started somewhere right…..

Thank you all very much for your help as I'm sure you all get questions from new member all the time...

Jeremy in MI.
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I would stay away from a HT receiver. I have had Yamaha and Denon models and never liked them for 2 channel. In fact since I use CF3 version 2s in my HT system I'm speaking from experience. I would look for a nice integrated amp. Vintage Sansui amps sound great with Klipsch. I believe both Yamaha and Pioneer have new integrated on the market. If you really want a receiver look at the one made by Outlaw. It gets very good revies and has a cool retro look. I'm not sure about the pricing on these but I believe they are all quite reasonable. One last thing if you are adventuous look into some of the less expensive IcePower amps. I use Bel Canto mono blocks on my version 1s and they kick butt together.

cubdog

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I agree with Cubdog, you'd be better off with an Integrated or here's the Outlaw RR2150 Stereo receiver he mentioned.

This has received many good reviews. It's loaded with 2 channel features....

2150Per.jpg

•State-of-the-art stereo receiver inspired by the art deco table radios of the past


•High performance FM Stereo/FM/AM tuner


•Multiple inputs with separate record output bus

•USB input for playback of streaming audio output from compatible computers


•High quality phono input for both moving magnet and moving coil cartridges

•Processor/equalizer loop


•The only stereo receiver with a subwoofer output that includes selectable, analog bass management [Y]

•Front
panel "speaker equalization" selector adds a half-octave of bass boost
at a choice of frequencies to improve performance with compact bookshelf
speakers


•Headphone jack with level control

•Front panel stereo mini-jack input for easy connection to portable devices such as iPod®




•Tone control defeat


•Precision, motorized volume control


•A/B Speaker Output


•Pre-Out/Main-In connections


•IR In/Out jacks



•Removable IEC style power cord


•Multi-device, programmable remote control

Here s the link --------> CLICK HERE

Dennie

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Thank you all for the input. Does anyone know the price of the outlaw? Also if I go integraded, would you recommend running the entire speaker set from it or run a portion with the reciever? If thats the way it alao works?

Outlaws website says it's on sale for $629 until Dec. 30th.

151.jpg152.jpg

If you go with an integrated, YES you would run both speakers from the integrated. You mentioned "entire speaker set"? Are you running more than 2 speakers? Is this part of a Home Theater?

Don't hesitate to ask questions Jeremy, we love this stuff and we are glad to help. BTW, welcome to the Klipsch forums and the Klipsch Family. We're glad you're here! [<:o)]

Dennie

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Thank you all once again for the input. To clear this up a bit my system will never be theatre. It's currently 2.0 and will most likely stay that way or 2.1 max. if needed (but these CF-3s do not need a sub right now in my house for sure.....).

The Outlaw looks to be an outstanting option. Real close to ordering....

But...

Where I got lost (and sorry for being so new) is the CF-3s have the option of powering the horns and woofers separatly. I've read this should be done for the best possible sound (but there is no way I want to invest as I believe that means at least two integrated amps correct?) And then how is the volume controlled uniformly? Too many questions...sorry, but that's what I'm still trying to wrap my head around right now. Basically, go with the Outlaw or go with two amps, a high price tag, but separate controls right?

For me, the Outlaw looks to be my best option for quality and price and most likely get me to sound quality well beyond what I've ever heard. Just want to know about separation if I ever go that direction someday.

Thank you

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Read a bit more into this, I believe I might finally have this right-

1) Outlaw. Will not be able to have seperate controls for the horns & woofers. Excellent sound quality though where seperate controls my not be needed.

2) Keep the current receiver and add an intergrated amp. Will not have seperate controls for horns and woofers. Better sounds quality and power than current amp.

3) Keep current receivers and run two amps with level control to allow seperate horn/amp. control.

Now do I finally have it :-)

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Read a bit more into this, I believe I might finally have this right-

1) Outlaw. Will not be able to have seperate controls for the horns & woofers. Excellent sound quality though where seperate controls my not be needed.

2) Keep the current receiver and add an intergrated amp. Will not have seperate controls for horns and woofers. Better sounds quality and power than current amp.

3) Keep current receivers and run two amps with level control to allow seperate horn/amp. control.

Now do I finally have it :-)

Of these three options I believe number 1 is your best bet. Typically when you bi amp speakers you use 2 different straight amplifiers along with a preamp. If one of these amps does not have level controls you would need a seperate crossover unit to control those levels. So to recap, if you need a tuner get the Outlaw or another 2 channel receiver. If you don't need the radio function a receiver gives you then go with an integrated amplifier like an Onkyo, Pioneer, or Yamaha. I think these are the two most economical solutions that will still give you great sound. Of course you can spent as much as you want and go in any direction you want but that's a whole new discussion.

cubdog

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All of my Klipsch speakers sound shrill using a home theater receiver in 2 channel. However, if you can get it to sound decent enough using the tone controls, I would not get too concerned over that issue at this time. Also, unless you are an audiophile, don't bother with bi-amping. You may not notice any difference except for in the pocketbook.

Hook the speakers up the same way you did as your old ones - you do not need separate controls for the horns and woofers, the speakers will take care of that for you automatically.

NP - RIOT - Narita

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Shrill is a good word for it. Best sound I've ever owned because of the speakers, but the 5.1 is very touchy CD to CD. Far too much Treble and the Bass goes from zero to crazy :-) No way I can complain and adjusting makes it sound very good to me (normally the best on less complex mixes). I've taken seperate controls off the list. Really looking hard at the Outlaw though. Will most likely wait until after Christmas. Just hoping I can hear a nice difference after forking over $630.

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Hey all.... Just wanted to say thank you again for all of your input and patience. The results are in (and approved by the wife :-) and the Outlaw will be ordered in about ten days. Can't wait and I would not have known about this without your help. Thanks very much and Merry Christmas :-)

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hello all. Just wanted to check in as I need a little more support please. Here's the situation.....I got to really try out the new Outlaw today. Now let me say I'm very new to all of this first of all, but the receiver (to my untrained ear) perform much less than the old Yamaha 5.1 I "shelved" for it (with my CF-3s). I by no means am posting to put down the receiver, but to me it's not close to the quality of sound. Very on and off brightness with bass sounding like 6 in. paper cones. $625 isn't a drop in the hat for me so I wanted to ask/comment....1) Is there normally a big curve for a break in? 2) Maybe I'm a product of 90's wall of sound and just not used to real hi-fi? 3) Just go with what I started with since that is what sounds best to me? Sorry for the comments on a very well received and high quality product...just need a little input as it's just not what my ear is happy with :-) Thank you all very much for the time.

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Hey Jeremy,

Well, that's not the best news. Did you go through the set up menu and get everything set up properly? Did you read the manual. Hi-Fi gear now a days has so many features, if you don't read the manual from front to back, you might miss something important. Have you adjusted the Bass and Treble? Often times people think they must remain in the neutral position, but that is not true. Adjust them to fit your needs.

The big curve on "Break in" will be to your ears. Give it a week or so to get use to how it sounds. Remember, Outlaw has a return policy and if you're really unhappy with it, ship it back. But I would give it some time to get use to it.

You may also need to move your speakers around some. Just because they sounded good with one piece of gear, doesn't mean they are positioned right for the new gear. I find speaker placement is everything!!!

What sources are you using? CDplayer? Ipod? DAC? Turntable? Music Server?

Hopefully other owners will chime in with their thoughts.

Dennie

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Thank you Dennie. Very kind of you to supply the insight. In this case I believe I have tried all the options. It could just take getting some used to, but it's just not there for my or my wife at this point. With that said the sound clearity is great--much better than the Yamaha ,but take for example the Eagle Hell Freezes Hotel Cal. The Outlaw produces a much bette intro, then the bass drum hits and it's very minor.

I've read the manual a few times (online as I wanted to get it all right once the unit arrived). Adjusted the boost options, adjusted the bass, set it all back to neutral over a few times now.

I'll admit this could all be me and by no means am I attempting to bash Outlaw. Using CDs with the CF-3s and my ears, it's just not working out. I guess the best way I could put it is the sound is very "Bose" like. Excellent clearity, but you can have it turned up very high and still talk to a person standing accross the room. Thanks once more for all the support guys. I'll eventually get it right :-) Have a great day.

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I've got a set of CF3s and had some initial set up issues as well. I received lots of help and advice from the smart and well heeled guys on this site who have an amazing amount of experience and knowledge. Thanks my homies!

My first attempt was with a mediocre Sony HT receiver. This was unsat. Then, I changed to an old Pioneer SA9100 integrated amp that my brother had in storage. Big smile! The SONY was relatively high power but you could have fooled me. The pioneer is probably 35 years old and about 80wpc. Those big boxes like big power and the speakers sounded MUCH better. I cannot speak to their efficiency but from what I understand, they aren't. They can't be compared with the big Heritage stuff.

I then added even more power (200 wpc) and they sounded even better. I can't comment on the Outlaw as I know bupkis about it, but I would think that an amp with that quality and reputation would sound great.

Good luck with the speakers and electrons. And as previously mentioned, signal source quality is very important. I reburned 1000 CDs to create lossless files and run them through a DAC. Absent that, they sounded thin and lousy. The actual disc was the way to go. I think that some recordings just don't work well with these speakers, even CDs. But when you find the ones that do, you'll be very pleased.

When mine are turned up to about the 10 o'clock position, no one in the room can hear anything else, and at 11 you can't even hear yourself think. I've never had them past about 11. I think my neighbors call the cops at about the 10:30 position. The rate of increase is not linear. It's exponential, like the richter scale.

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