waverly Posted January 9, 2013 Author Share Posted January 9, 2013 well, i have my home theater setup in the main living room with 7.2 surround and Onkyo Processor. This is just for my upstairs 2 channel listening room, i wanted to use what i had and i thought what the heck and use the trusty old Peach preamp that i havent used in 4 years. I will see how it sounds once all the gear arrives, if it sounds like garbage then i will ditch the EQ and order acoustic panels for $400 for 5 of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipbarrett Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 The Behringer 32 band graphic is a poorly implemented version of a piece of professional gear that even when done well (Klark or BSS) introduced huge phase distortion, filter ringing, noise and other artifacts into the signal chain. There was no better solution at the time of their development, however, you will seldom see them used in any professional environment today for the reasons outlined above. You will have certainly wasted your money on the Peach if you insert the Behringer into your system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 The Behringer 32 band graphic is a poorly implemented version of a piece of professional gear that even when done well (Klark or BSS) introduced huge phase distortion, The KT was known for being noisy, as far as phase shift, it is supposed to shift the phase, it wouldn't work if it didn't. The filter shifts the phase of the signal which is then mixed with the original signal, affecting the amplitude in that frequency band. When properly used, you are EQing minimum phase events so when amplitude is corrected, the phase anomaly that caused the amplitude shift to begin with is also corrected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipbarrett Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 "Properly" being the key word here. It's almost impossible to designing an analog circuit that can perform effective eq without adding in other artifacts. In our SIM tests the IRP Transversal (sadly long gone) in cuts-only mode came the closest but nothing looked that great & were certainly not something I'd want on my home system. Another product that held up well and was the choice for studio monitors for years was Texas' own White Instruments. They're still in business too - http://www.whiteinstruments.com/index.htm Rane publish a very nice white paper on the subject of equalizers - http://www.rane.com/note122.html Back to the OP. If you have to use eq (of which I'm skeptical) the Behringer DEQ2496 is a much better, low cost solution. I actually own a pair and have used them for buss processing on some fairly large scale broadcast stuff. http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/DEQ2496.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waverly Posted January 10, 2013 Author Share Posted January 10, 2013 Thanks so much for the information Philbarrett, i have read reviews about the Behringer 2496 and its capabilities. The reason i went with the 31 Graphic EQ is that it looks like it just a straight up equalizer and it doesnt have all the other upsampling DAC conversion circuitry and extra sound processing features that could possibly introduce even more complexity into the signal chain. What would you set the High pass and low pass filters for each channel? I will be running B&W DM-1800 speakers, here are the specs: Specifications Frequency range: 43Hz to 30kHz Sensitivity: 90dB Distortion: <3% third harmonic Drive units: 200mm / 26mm Power handling: 30-200W amplifiers Dimensions: 634 x 236 x 300mm Cabinet finish: black ash or walnut real wood veneer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 ..........so back to square one. I guess no one payed attention to what I posted. The designer of the Peach acknowledges that his box doesn't function with Pro equipment. Forget about hi and lo Z. A few people have already tried this years ago.........not yesterday.......and it won't work right. Not a pro unit on the outputs of the Peach. Maybe decent fucntionality on the tape loop with a pro EQ if you get a lucky match. The Peach aint gonna work with a Pro amp nor processor on its output unless you add one of those "Clean Boxes"...........which then lead me to further disatisfaction and abndonment. Again.........please report what you find. I'm surely interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waverly Posted January 10, 2013 Author Share Posted January 10, 2013 I read and acknowleged your posts Mark[Y] I appreciate your input and your actual personal experience with the Peach and pro equipment. I am pretty sure that it wont right either and i am prepared for that, worst case scenario is that i just order one of Emotiva's new 2 channel pre-amps, the coveted USP-1 Stereo Preamp, only $369. http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/processors/products/usp1 Anyone want a mint condition, recently serviced by Mark Deneen Peach Pre-amp? any and all offers will be taken into consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipbarrett Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 I've read and re-read your posts and no where do you elaborate why you want to add an eq to your system? Don't sell the Peach until you've 'splained Lucy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipbarrett Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 ...and after you've 'splained we'll talk trading a DEQ for a Peach? :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waverly Posted January 10, 2013 Author Share Posted January 10, 2013 I have a room that is 11' x 12' x 9' ceiling and i analyzed the room with my RTA and FFT analyzer playing pink noise and there is a strong room mode at 50hz and a node at 70hz or so, i have played with placement and it doesnt seem to fix it. Plus, i want to play with an EQ and really tune the system to the room using the FFT analyzer, i want to "cut my teeth" as they would say and really shape the sound perfectly to the acoustics of the room and just experiment with RTA and FFT to see what affects the graph, more for personal edification and learning. I would consider selling the peach, send me an offer via PM. Here is the original post by Mark back in 2004: http://community.klipsch.com/forums/p/42189/391058.aspx#391058 I remember when he first put these into production in 2004 and offered them to forum members, i picked one up for $1200 and used it with a couple of Dynaco Mark III's that i picked up on Ebay, and then sent them to Craig at NOS Valves to get completely redone , i mean tri- mode boards, seperate bias for each KT tube, banana speaker connectors, all new foil caps and new resistors, basically all that was kept from the originals were the metal chassis! I ran that setup with my RF-7's with the DeanG crossover mods, talk about a sweet 2 channel setup, that was all back in the day . Great times and memories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Maybe compare the Peach to the Emotiva USP-1 before you flog it...it's something I would do... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 So, then i would use the LoZ setting to match the higher 40K ohm impendance of the EQ. I would try it both ways and use whatever sounds the best. 40K is a bit low for the high Z but not terribly low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 ..........so back to square one. I guess no one payed attention to what I posted. The designer of the Peach acknowledges that his box doesn't function with Pro equipment. Forget about hi and lo Z. A few people have already tried this years ago.........not yesterday.......and it won't work right. Not a pro unit on the outputs of the Peach. Maybe decent fucntionality on the tape loop with a pro EQ if you get a lucky match. The Peach aint gonna work with a Pro amp nor processor on its output unless you add one of those "Clean Boxes"...........which then lead me to further disatisfaction and abndonment. Again.........please report what you find. I'm surely interested. I think knowing the designer like I do (very well) he just didn't want to open that can of worms of support...I think it can be made to work relatively well. But with that said I have no clue why someone would want to put all that effect in the signal path. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waverly Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 Some very good information here! What about this idea, i have a Heathkit AR-29 stereo receiver that i was using before i wanted to do the whole new setup. Can i hook that EQ up to that vintage receiver, through the tape outs to the EQ and then loop it back to the Tape input? basically i will have the Behringer EQ hooked up to the Heathkit receiver and use that, how does that sound? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Can i hook that EQ up to that vintage receiver, through the tape outs to the EQ and then loop it back to the Tape input? This should work. Tape loops are often used for this very purpose.Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waverly Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 so i would hook up my SACD player to one of the inputs say Tape and then have the EQ going through the tape loop, im presuming that i have to have the tape button pressed it? My question is how does the receiver patch the SACD or whatever is on one of the inputs through the EQ? here is a picture of the front panel of my receiver that i have, it is the one on the top, not the big one on the bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 My Peach and Tercel are performing just fine with a tube(ed) CD player and a turntable plugged in to a set of VRD monos thank you very much. The Belles (and my ears) seem to like the match. My hat / cap / balding scalp is off to you Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssh Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Old school here, boss. Old school and lovin' it! SSH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waverly Posted January 12, 2013 Author Share Posted January 12, 2013 Thanks so much for the information Mark! I have found a buyer for the Peach and it will soon go to a home where she can be appreciated for the little jewel that she is. I in turn will use either my Heathkit or my Sansui receiver with the EQ looped through the tape monitor, i have ordered 4 acosutic panels, they are 24x48x4, that should help the acoustics of the room, then i will use the EQ and my RTA and FFT Analyzer to fine tune the system along with the 10" sony subwoofer that will be integrated into the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Thanks for clearing that up Mark. As my posts state, I was never able to get satisfying performance with the Peach "in front" of a pro audio unit (processor or amp). However, I was able to get very good performance using a pro EQ on the tape loop at one time or another. My Peach is still performing just fine after about 7 years now and I use it quite a bit still, but connected to "right stuff". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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