McMiRA Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 I'm not trying to kick the dead horse here but after running a search I came up with nothing. I've seen the debates over silver vs copper and lamp cords vs cabling worth more than my car. What I'm more interested in is the gauge of the wire. Obviously larger creates more surface area for electron flow but does there come a point where you've reached the peak performance and the next size up won't make a bit of difference. I plan on doing some diy copper cables with locking 45* bananas. 8'-10' long. Was considering 10awg or even 8awg.( Price isnt that much more),Then I started thinking of the wiring of the crossover. The cabinets have aa crossovers and no matter what size or quality cable ran to them they are still limited by internal wiring all the way to the coils of the drivers themselves. Then my head started spinning and I came up with a hair brain idea to upgrade all the internal wiring to 12 or 10 in the crossovers and to the drivers. I know the idea is path or least resistance. Supersized perhaps. I guess the point of this is does size matter between the amp and crossover in this situation? Is bigger better? Would upgrading internal wire make a bit of difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 it has been my experience that people who change out internal wire with the belief that if some is good and more is better then too mucn must be perfect frame of mind are most often disapointed and sometimes very sorry they did so. Want some good advice leave it alone and buy a real good source or a real good amp and stop thinking that ecconomical littlle changes will change your world they won't. Most xovers with circuit boards will not take more than 16 gage and you don't want to know how many blown up speakers I have seed sue to sloppy installation of ten gage wire even connector terminals broken off because they could not take the stress of big fat wires. Simply said it is a bad idea. Internal wire is for the most part very short and the DCR is not a big concern. I admit to have had the same thoughts and to having done the very thing that I warn you against so I speak from experience on a multitude of levels here. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMiRA Posted January 28, 2013 Author Share Posted January 28, 2013 Have a clean source and plan on running a decent tube amp for the power with eventually a tube preamp. Was thinkinging that an 8 foot run of 8awg would theoretically act as a shorter run of smaller sized wire. Possibly cleaner. Have about 100$ set aside for the project. Would I just be better off spending the money on pre built ones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo171 Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 I think he is seeking the "wire-gauge to length-of-run" chart. I don't have it. Can someone help him with that? Please DON'T spend $100 on speaker cable. I think the chart said anything under 25ft, 16AWG is good...over 25ft and it's up to 14AWG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 have you found any connectors which will accept 8 gage wire? this is a most problematic suggestion you have made. as far as gage size goes 14 is generally about as big as you want to or need to go. smaller insulated strands making up a 14 gage cable is a good plan but will require a solder pot to terminate. non terminated as in stranded bare wire much bigger than 12 gage is a big worry for having a stray strand short out your amp. connectors which are insulated are a very good practice. there are other issues which work against using big fat wire like 8 gage welding cable. not trying to be dick but if you need to try this then just be very careful and see for yourself. A twisted pair of 14 gage or a twisted quad of 16 gage work well and will be difficult to better. welding wire is for welding. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 I think he is seeking the "wire-gauge to length-of-run" chart. I don't have it. Can someone help him with that? Please DON'T spend $100 on speaker cable. I think the chart said anything under 25ft, 16AWG is good...over 25ft and it's up to 14AWG. I use this handy dandy applet: http://www.bcae1.com/images/swfs/speakerwireselectorassistant.swf Some of the coolest DIY speaker wire I have ever seen was made from CAT 5 or CAT 6 ethernet cable. Seems to me they stripped the casing installed banana plug ends, installed colorful braded shielding, and ended up with some super high quality professional looking wires. As for me, I grab whatever is around. I have used ebverything from the high dollar Monster wire to telephone wire, and even one of those old orange outdoor extension cords to run speakers. I never A/B tested anything, but if I needed something, and didn't want to go to a store or wait for an order to ship to me, I just poked around the garage and found something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 One other thing. You can check out Nezff's speaker cables. They are works of art: http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/147585.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 You can try something like this. And if you don't like them or don't think they're worth the money you can return them. I'm very happy with results since I purged my system of all Monster Cable products and went with Kimber Hero interconnects w/WBT ends. Clicky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMiRA Posted January 29, 2013 Author Share Posted January 29, 2013 My idea was going beyond gauge to leanght, I didn't know if there was any advantage to it. I found some knukoncepts twisted pair 8 gauge speaker cable for $1.65/ft or 10 awg for $0.99/ ft. Same company makes wire pants in either size for $0.99/ea. generic 4 pack of 45 degree 24 ct gold plated locking banana clips that accept 8mm (the diameter of 8awg) for $30.00/ pack. Entire project would be around $110. I've worked with wire like this in the past. Heck I've work with a lot larger. Caught the db drag racing bug when I was a teenager and that got out of hand quick. Good quality wire in this gauge is silky smith and just coils where it lays. And your right about it being like welding cable. A high end ground cable is pricey but makes all the difference. Now that you see where I'm going with this am I onto something or just over compensating for my height? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 the connectors make this a safe experiment so sure spend a few bucks and see what you think. It is not what I would choose to do but that is me. I would expect the option I gave to work better but that is for you to decide for yourself. I would still not recommend such large gage for internal hook up especially to a crossover board unless you custom designed the board to accept s a large gage. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMiRA Posted January 29, 2013 Author Share Posted January 29, 2013 Was not using this internally. Just from amp to speaker. Was going to call crites today to order my c125s and ask about the c/4500 and get some opinions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich_Guy Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 I used Mogami 2921 QUAD wire for my current wires that I made myself and I love them and highly recommend this wire. This is considered a little larger than 13 ga and I bi-wire them which makes the guage higher. Mogami is excellent wire and really has a very good sound quality, this wire is a little more expensive but well worth it. I used GLS locking bananas for my connectors. Here is a pretty good link which shows how easy it is to build your own speaker cables. http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=diy&action=display&thread=23093 Here's some pics of my speaker cables before the bananas were installed. The amp end. The speaker end. Here are the GLS locking bananas Installed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rbgcc13 Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Just a suggestion, go to Lowes or Homedepot and buy several different guages at the desired length - stranded and same thing in solid wire, and just plug and play, see if you hear anything, and/or what strikes your fancy sound-wise. Altec had installation instruction for their field guys that spelled out the appropreaate guage for length of run - check out Altec unofficial site it should be in their resource section I think. If you're interested in trying different materials, take a 2X6 say 6 feet long and put "hookup screw strips" on each end and string the exotic wire between each hookup screw, then use your existing cable (actually you need 2 because the board goes in-between the amp/speaker), with a alligator clips on the ends and see how each colors the sound - instant changes without hassling with the amp/speaker. Might try stranded copper, solid copper, silver either one strand or a couple, gold (rather pricy) and steel (Walt Bender - picture hanging wire). CAT cable is very well made stuff and can adjust the number of strandes used for varying guage size, can try it as is or strip the wire out and do your own twist pattern - have used it, nice. Cotton covered tinned copper wire as used by Ma Bell - like to try it. I found just using a nice outdoor extension cord cut and wires twisted and tinned with no plugs work pretty decently - made sure it would squeeze into the amp speaker screw down and on my speaker cross overs - and as noted above not stressing the crossover strength too much. Now use stuff that looks like HD lamp cord, 14 ga for runs no more than 6 feet. Anything Mogami is good - they make awesome mic cables, very low signal and super long runs in studios and live shows, and it's tough stuff to boot. Use their wire from my audio converter (AD/DA) to my amps that sit next to my speakers. Your software, meaning records and music files, and your choice of speakers/placement have more impact than wire. Think early mono Beatles records versus the remixes into stereo and then early CDs, talk about a real sound difference!!! Enjoy your tunes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wineslob Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 While I'm not a Klipsch owner, (I have hybrid Apogees) IMO the flat stranded copper from Rat Shack is just fine. In my system I use it on the bass cabinets and Anti-Cables on the MR/Ts (ribbons). Put it this way, I have Zebra cables stored in the garage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMiRA Posted January 31, 2013 Author Share Posted January 31, 2013 Didnt mean to quote previous post, ipad doesn't like forums some days. The wire I'm looking at is tinned angle hair, many more strands than standard wire. Think we are loosing the point of this topic. I'm not looking for appropriate gauge for x amount of feet I'm looking to see if there are any advantages to using lager than required to theoretically shorten the distance between amp and speaker by giving a considerable larger amount of surface area than would be provided by the appropriate gauge for the run. Electrons travel on the outside of a strand of wire, not through it, what the idea is to provide as much surface area as possible by going to over-sized gauge for one and secondly using angel hair that gives more stand per gauge than standard. I'm not saying its going to have " more power" or anything like that but it should positively affect the efficiency of the run. Kind of like having the amp being built into the crossover. I have high grade low grade, network cable, you name it laying around the house. I'm just gonna start building some $xxt and see what happens. At the very least they will sound the same as the monoprice stuff ran all over the house but look a lot nicer. I'd mount the amps in the cabinets but then there would be a larger gap between the preamp/ amp and speaker cables have the least chance of introduced noise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipbarrett Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Electrons travel on the outside of a strand of wire Actually electrons don't "travel" at all, to the best of our understanding they merely bump into each other. The actual transmission of electricity is not really understood at all, I get a good laugh when certain cable brands claim to have knowledge that has eluded theoretical physicists! +1 on Mogami and Canare, although I doubt they effect the sound in any way different to zip cord they are very nice cables to work with. Of course they don't get coiled and uncoiled every day in home system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Actually electrons don't "travel" at all, to the best of our understanding they merely bump into each other. True, it could take hours for a single electron to go down 6 feet of wire and emerge out the other end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 How do you track that ????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMiRA Posted January 31, 2013 Author Share Posted January 31, 2013 Now we're just splitting hairs [8-|] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted January 31, 2013 Moderators Share Posted January 31, 2013 Ok I noticed no one said anything, so i will be the dummy and jump out there and say it []..........................................Are you crazy or just being silly thinking about 10 or 8 AWG for a 8' run, 14 or 12 awg is overkill for 8' ? [:|] Really I have a welding machine on #8 and it's alot longer than 8' ! What do you think you will gain except pounds of copper ? Sorry but I had to ask the question, I can now go on your list of idiots, but REALLY ? [:$] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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