X10 vs s4

[deluss]

So I have seen a few threads in regards to having issues with the x10 headphone purchased directly from amazon and I figured i'd touch base here t osee if anyone had anyone had some anwsers for me. So My s4's broke and I forgot about the klipsch warranty(though klipsch has since replaced them for me I love you guys)

So I purchased the x10 directly from amazon fulfillment. I was eager and excited to listen to them but, When I put them in my ears and played my favorite FLAC album I found that they lacked definition and detail. The S4's seemed to have better range and slightly more bass. Is it just me or is the a common issue with these. I believed that I was "upgrading". Did I recieve a dud as well or what. Any Input would be amazing.

[gmarcm]

Couple of things.....

Like any earphone, headphone or speaker, break in time is required. They simply will not sound as good as they can straight out of the box. I think it takes a minimum of 50 hours. I don't judge a headphone or IEM's until they have 200 hours. I take an iPod, set it to shuffle, and sit it in the corner for about a week or so. Volume at about 50%. Don't listen to them at all during that time. Do that and see if your opinion changes.

Also, the S4 is clearly EQ'ed with heavier bottom end. Many people like that and it works for some music. The X10 is a more accurate sound than the S4 with no coloration and no emphasis on more bass, etc. But if you take the time to really listen you will hear things that you don't hear with the S4. There is still plenty of bass but it is projected accurately, never bloated or boomy. Mids are very nice and detailed, which is the strength of the X10. Highs are, again, accurate, not rolled off and not piercing. The X10 is a much more refined sound, and they sound even better with a headphone amp. I think you will find that you can listen to these for longer periods than you can the S4. Both are good IEM's but the X10 is just a different type of sound than the S4.

The fact that you mentioned FLAC recording tells me that you aren't listening to low bit rate crap. I laugh when I see people get expensive earphones and then listen to iTunes music and AAC files at 128 or 256 and gripe about how bad the earphones sound. That doesn't appear to be the case here. Try breaking them in for at least 50 hours, maybe more. If that doesn't make a significant difference you may have a defective pair, but I kind of doubt it. Let me also suggest Comply tips in place of the stock silicon tips. A very cheap investment that makes a major difference in comfort and certainly in sound because they isolate so well. Less than $20 for three sets, and the audible difference is well worth it. Good luck.

[deluss]

Ok man, ill deffinitly take your advice and i'll get back to you with how it turns out.

[Deang]

Couple of things.....

Like any earphone, headphone or speaker, break in time is required. They simply will not sound as good as they can straight out of the box. I think it takes a minimum of 50 hours. I don't judge a headphone or IEM's until they have 200 hours. I take an iPod, set it to shuffle, and sit it in the corner for about a week or so. Volume at about 50%. Don't listen to them at all during that time. Do that and see if your opinion changes.

Also, the S4 is clearly EQ'ed with heavier bottom end. Many people like that and it works for some music. The X10 is a more accurate sound than the S4 with no coloration and no emphasis on more bass, etc. But if you take the time to really listen you will hear things that you don't hear with the S4. There is still plenty of bass but it is projected accurately, never bloated or boomy. Mids are very nice and detailed, which is the strength of the X10. Highs are, again, accurate, not rolled off and not piercing. The X10 is a much more refined sound, and they sound even better with a headphone amp. I think you will find that you can listen to these for longer periods than you can the S4. Both are good IEM's but the X10 is just a different type of sound than the S4.

The fact that you mentioned FLAC recording tells me that you aren't listening to low bit rate crap. I laugh when I see people get expensive earphones and then listen to iTunes music and AAC files at 128 or 256 and gripe about how bad the earphones sound. That doesn't appear to be the case here. Try breaking them in for at least 50 hours, maybe more. If that doesn't make a significant difference you may have a defective pair, but I kind of doubt it. Let me also suggest Comply tips in place of the stock silicon tips. A very cheap investment that makes a major difference in comfort and certainly in sound because they isolate so well. Less than $20 for three sets, and the audible difference is well worth it. Good luck.

You're a good poster. I agree with everything I've been reading by you, but I'm not so sure I can agree with you though on AAC 256 being "crap". Maybe my age is catching up with me, but I can't hear a hill a beans of difference between AAC 256 and the higher bit rates.

[Deang]

"So I have seen a few threads in regards to having issues with the x10 headphone purchased directly from amazon..."

I haven't seen any of these posts. I've buying these things left and right (ha ha), and haven't had any problems.

[gmarcm]

Listen to a lossless file of a song that you are familiar with, then listen to the same file in 256. Use a good pair of headphones or IEM's. The difference will be dramatic. Even 320 will be noticably different. I don't download anything less than 320 because my ears with my equipment can tell the difference. I am almost 54 and I have some degree of hearing loss (too many concerts when I was younger). I guess most of us do at this age. But higher bit rates, to me, are much different. There are a few sites that offer higher bit rate downloads but they have limited selections and are pretty expensive. There was one that I used called musicgiant.com but they went belly up. One of the reasons was a constant fued about digital rights. Most of the stuff I got from them is useless now because it is DRM protected. Maybe I can figure out a way around it. Also, when you rip a CD to iTunes you can set the bit rate that it copies at. You can even use Apple's lossless set up. It makes it a really large file but it sure sounds better.

Thanks for the compliment on my posts. I just call a spade a spade, and let the chips fall. I am a headphone and earphone junky with a little bit of experience.

[Alex L]

Not sure what threads you are referring to, but, give it time, you will enjoy the X10s immensely.

[Technocrafts]

So I have seen a few threads in regards to having issues with the x10 headphone purchased directly from amazon and I figured i'd touch base here t osee if anyone had anyone had some anwsers for me. So My s4's broke and I forgot about the klipsch warranty(though klipsch has since replaced them for me I love you guys)

So I purchased the x10 directly from amazon fulfillment. I was eager and excited to listen to them but, When I put them in my ears and played my favorite FLAC album I found that they lacked definition and detail. The S4's seemed to have better range and slightly more bass. Is it just me or is the a common issue with these. I believed that I was "upgrading". Did I recieve a dud as well or what. Any Input would be amazing.

I own both, the s4s and x10s, I can definitely assure you the difference between the two is day and night. I stopped using the s4s a long time ago, when I got my first pair of triple diver IEM from UE/Logitech. The s4's sound was unbearable once I heard the clarity and details from the Triple-fi 10. I found that the s4s sound were drowning in bass and lacking detail. About a year ago I picked up a pair of x10s during the Amazon sales back than, I just couldn't believe their awesome performance right out of the box. I also have a pair of Westone3, which is a three way triple driver, and the Image x10's sound signature closely resembles that of the W3. Naturally the w3 has a greater extension on the higher end, somewhat more details and better sound stage, but the difference is subtle between the w3 and x10. If you find your s4s to outperform the x10s, chances are you got a defective pair of x10. Coincidentally I stumbled upon my old pair of s4s just a few days ago, so I wanted to try them again to see how they would sound from an ipod 5.5 video rockboxed, well, I couldn't finish listening trough a single album, all I heard was colored sound with heavy bass, some poor mid-range colored with upper -mid bass hump, and abysmal high end. At least they are not sibilant... No way your x10s can perform that bad, provided they are authentic and not defective, even if you don't get a good seal from the factory installed gels

[gmarcm]

Good post, and I agree. A few things that I might add.....

I purchased a set of the $89 X10's a few weeks ago. I normally don't do this but I spent about 5 minutes with them before I broke them in. I was not terribly impressed as they lacked depth and had almost no soundstage. I broke them in for roughly 60 hours plugged into Total Bithead amp which was plugged into the headphone jack of my desktop speakers, at rough half volume. I spent over an hour with them listening to lossless files as well as a nicely recorded Yellowjackets CD. They sounded like completely different IEM's and I enjoyed listening to them. Very smooth and balanced. Were they as nice as my SE535's? No, but they were at least in the same neighborhood, which is an accomplishment for a single driver IEM that initially costs more than $200 less. I suspect that they will get even better with 200 or so hours. I like them and I think $89 is an extreme bargain that doesn't come along often enough. I also listened to some old stuff on an iPod that is not recorded at a higher bit rate. These are quite unforgiving in that they reveal poor recordings for what they are. No cover up with these! Crap in - crap out. But they reward you when you feed them high quality files or CD's or LP's. The only real issue I had with them was the silicon tips, which I do not like. I "modified" a set of Comply tips for my SE535 to use on the X10 and they worked okay. I have ordered some for the X10 an I look forward to what should be an obvious improvement.

Regarding the S4 - I have a set of them as well. They are just a totally different sound than the X10 and they should be for the difference in price. Lots of bass EQ'ed into them. I use them at the gym or working in the yard where I do not require audiophile level sound and I do not want to take a chance damaging a higher priced IEM, and I use them with an iPod Shuffle that does not have an external amp. They are two completely different animals designed for different types of listening.

[Technocrafts]

Interesting, I thought BA transducer based sound gear did not reqire any burn-in, but I guess this may be subject to each individual. Over a year I did not notice any change in my x10s sound, but I can't say I've been using them a lot. I have them with me all the time, but I can only get to hear music at work or elsewhere on the go occasionally. These are very smooth sounding phones indeed, but I would not regard their sound balanced, it is rather bottom heavy, albeit the bass is crisp, clear and layered and not drowning. Probably I'm being overly critical, since I do most of my music listening trough my hd-600s, now that's balanced sound! Anyway, it's another story, my focus here should stay on the x10s. You mentioned Total Bithead, I'm using the iBasso D2 Boa, wich is antiquated by now, but it does a great job smoothing out the lousy crap that would come out from the ipod/iphone phone jack( since they moved away from Wolfson), extracting the signal trough the LOD instead. Encoding rate does make a big difference I agree, I have a good collection of FLAC, ALAC ripped music, but well produced albums sound acceptable at 256 kbits as well.Poorly mastered studio recording or low bit-rate is definitely revealed trough the x10 as well as trough any other high end gear, a good indication of high definition sound. How is it possible to accomplish that feat with a single armature, it is beyound me. These tiny plugs pump so much bass, like a powerful subwoofer, you almost feel your bones rambling, incredible. I still prefer more balanced sound though with deep and layerd bass, that does not bleed into the higher range. I also have a few set of comply tips for my westies, they fit the x10s perfectly, I just tried them on the x10s since you mentioned. You right, the sound is definitely better, but for different reasons than more efficient seal. The foam allows some of the mid-bass hump to leak out and makes the sound more airy, it gives you a sence of wider sound stage. I think I will keep these on from now on, thanks for mentioning.

The s4s are out for me, there's no going back. I was euphoric when I first got them, that time the sound of my beloved Costum3s that got stolen was distant memory. The Triple-fi 10 sealed the deal for me that came to my posession only a few weeks after I got the s4s. I went from bass head to audiophile almost at an instant, now I can't even tolerate the sound from my one time old favorite cx-300 or s4 for that matter, the two sound almost identical...I hope others won't take insult in this remark, I don't mean to trash the s4s, they present a very good value, especially if someone upgrading from stock phones bundled with mp3 players.

[gmarcm]

I have a set of HD595. A step below the 600 but slightly more efficient. I love them, and yes, they are balanced. I have a set of the closed back Denon cans as well that I like for certain types of music. The 1000 series, I believe. I was at CES last year and got to experience the HD800. Those were otherwordly, but so is the price. I also have an old set of AKG monitor cans that are pretty sweet, and very efficient.

I guess I meant that the X10 is balanced in comparison to the S4. I paid less than $70 for my S4 about 4 or 5 years ago to replace a set of Shure 3 series that died. For the money and for what I use them for they are great. Probably at least as good as anything else in that price range, and maybe better. It is easy to compare them to the X10 as an $89 IEM and say that for such a small price difference there is no comparison in sound. But when you take into account that they are really a $320+ IEM you start to be a bit more picky and you look for more justification. Since I own a set of SE535 and absolutely love them I would never have purchased the X10 at the original price. But at the $89 price I had to give them a go and I'm glad I did. I have several different IEM's and these have moved into the # 2 position behind the SE535. I can't listen to the S4 for long periods of time (unless I'm mowing the yard) but I can with the X10. I may buy another set just to have on hand.

[Technocrafts]

I have a set of HD595. A step below the 600 but slightly more efficient. I love them, and yes, they are balanced. I have a set of the closed back Denon cans as well that I like for certain types of music. The 1000 series, I believe. I was at CES last year and got to experience the HD800. Those were otherwordly, but so is the price. I also have an old set of AKG monitor cans that are pretty sweet, and very efficient.

Yep, the HD595 is very analytic indeed, I had the chance to test drive a pair thoroughly. I love the added bass extension of the HD600, and that gear is somewhat more forgiving. I can imagine your thrill with the HD800, I don't think I want to expose myself to it, I'm afraid I will want a pair after hearing what many claimed to experience who either have them or tried them. A sound source upgrade would serve me better than yet another pair of headphones or IEM, though I would love to add the Image One to my collection, I really liked what I heard when I auditioned a pair. Maybe they will come on sale one day...

The SE535 was also on the list of my targets, but I came across a very good sale on a pair of Westone3, so I went for that instead. Like yourself, I was not in need for another pair of IEMs when I found the X10s on sale at Amazon, but I couldn't pass it on, and they were also on my list to obtain a pair if I ever find a good sale, so here they are. I wasn't sure whether I would keep them, until I heard their sound. As you also noted, the real price north of $300 is way too high, since you can find a huge selection in that price range that clearly outperform the x10/x10i by a significant margin. Most of them feature replaceable cable, I think that would serve Klipsch better to offer as an option instead of the apple remote crap. I would not want that garbage on any of my audio gear, I would even choose to pay extra if I really like something, that doesn't have that feature. I don't care if the whole world uses the crappy iphone as sound source, it has nothing to do with sound quality IMHO. The last ipod was the 5.5 video, and I believe the second generation of iPhone that featured Wolfson audio codec. My 6-th generation classic's headphone jack is nearly intact, I never use it. Maybe one day when I'll get a Samsung Galaxy, but until then I will only use my 5.5 video as audio player without amp.

[bwbike]

I too have both the S4i (and S5i) and the X10i. I don't like the X10i near as much as the S4i/S5i. The sound just isn't as good to me (my hearing is very good) when I listen to my iPod. The bass is lacking. At lower listening volumes the bass just doesn't cut it with me. At higher volumes, the mids & highs get way too loud before the bass does. I purchased all of three of these headphones from Klipsch online so there shouldn't be any issue of copies.

The only time I listen to my X10i phones is when I want a smaller pair in my ears if I'm going somewhere. For my workouts, I always use (and enjoy) my S5i since they are more moisture resistant.

[gmarcm]

You said that the X10 doesn't sound as good to you when listening to your iPod. I wonder exactly what you are listening to. Is it something that you got from iTunes? If so, it is most likely copied at a lower bit rate. Even music that is ripped from a CD is at a lower bit rate unless you go in and manually change it in Settings before you rip the disk. The X10 is really kind of overkill for that. I have the S4 and the X10. With well recorded music on an iPod at a higher bit rate I clearly favor the X10. Matter of fact, it isn't close. The S4 has a bunch of bass EQ'd into it, so if that is what trips your trigger, go with the S4. But try to spend some time with a CD played through a good player with a good receiver or A/V system and listen to all three IEM's. You will hear things on the X10 that you never knew were there on the S4. And don't confuse good bass with boomy bass. I was surprised and impressed with the tight and accurate bass on the X10 vs. exagerated and boomy bass on the S4, but I use higher bit rate files and that makes a lot of difference. I do like the S4, just not for critical listening.

[Technocrafts]

The bass is lacking. At lower listening volumes the bass just doesn't cut it with me. At higher volumes, the mids & highs get way too loud before the bass does. I purchased all of three of these headphones from Klipsch online so there shouldn't be any issue of copies.

I can assure you, the X10i does not lack on bass at all, in fact, the awesome clear and layered bass of the X10 what makes the gear one of my top favorite. I'm sure you have a perfect hearing, but you may be addicted to one note bass. Myself was afflicted by this epidemic, before high end portable gear became affordable. Likely you have one of the newer iPods, they are really not the best regarding sound quality either, even with higher bit-rate encoded music or lossless. A portable amp can help tremedously, but they are expensive. One of the great advantage of the iPod is the LOD, so you can get the signal out of the player directly, bypassing the player's low grade opamp. This amp would be a great option: http://www.ibasso.com/en/products/show.asp?ID=73 but when you add the LOD cable (a good one would run close to $30) and shipping cost, may not be all that attractive.

[gmarcm]

I also recommend the Headroom Total Airhead. They run it on special for $99. It doesn't replace the iPod amp but it does a very nice job, especially for the price. I use it with an older 4gb Nano with lossless files on plane trips. I am kind of surprised that Klipsch hasn't come out with a small portable amp to go alone with their IEM's. But then, I am also surprised that Apple hasn't come out with one to mate with iPods. Are you familiar with the C-Moy amps? A small DIY amp that can be made for less than $30. Google it and check it out. I'm sure it doesn't sound as good as after market amps but I have been threatening to make one just for the heck of it. If it turns okay I might make several of them to give to my kids and their friends.

[bwbike]

Well, I tried plugging into my stereo when I first got the X10i and listened to some CD's. I still thought the S4i sounded better. [*-)]

I thought about an amp more than once, but using the Nano with the S4i works just fine for me. It has plenty of bass without the need to turn the volume too high.

[gmarcm]

You said "when I first got them". That might be the key. These do require some break in time. Put them on your Nano or even on your stereo and let them play at a moderate volume for about three or four days. I think you will hear a noticeable difference. The S4 is bassy out of the box but they do smooth out after a little time.

[Technocrafts]

Well, I tried plugging into my stereo when I first got the X10i and listened to some CD's. I still thought the S4i sounded better.

I thought about an amp more than once, but using the Nano with the S4i works just fine for me. It has plenty of bass without the need to turn the volume too high.

The only thing I can recommend is to listen trough the X10 exclusively for a week, and try focusing on the details of the music. A good audio source like your stereo you mentioned, should make the sound recording more reveling and your listening experience more engaging. Soon you will discover that the bass though appears to be less pronounced, it is actually more detailed. The muddy bass you hear from lower end ear phones are overpowering most of the middle-range, and it isn't really deep bass what you hear, only the illusion of it. It is more like mid and upper mid-bass hump, while the lower range below 50 Hz is not even audible. Like for instance, I downloaded once an album from Trentemoller, back than I only had a pair of Sennheiser CX-300, which I regarded at that time the best ever... I really thought the album mentioned was drums and bass, I did not hear anything else. Years later when I re-auditioned the album trough and amp and a pair of triple driver IEM, the thick heavy bass disappeared from the recording, but I realized I never even heard that album before...The bass was actually a combination of several synthesized bass instruments with intricate details, chords and key modulations that took my breath away. The X10s are actually bass heavy, and they don't have a lot of aire extension, but from a single armature based solution not much more can be expected, they perform excellent considering that fact. I can assure you, your patience will be rewarded...

[Technocrafts]

Are you familiar with the C-Moy amps? A small DIY amp that can be made for less than $30. Google it and check it out. I'm sure it doesn't sound as good as after market amps but I have been threatening to make one just for the heck of it. If it turns okay I might make several of them to give to my kids and their friends.

Actually a friend of mine had a cheap C-Moy amp a few years ago, I didn't listen trough it extensively but for what I can tell, it sounded very good. There are excellent budget solutions from FiiO as well, my Westone3 shipped with the E6, which can be had for $25 or maybe even less. The amp is very small and perfomrs great with IEMs, I'm not sure about big cans though. I wouldn't expect neither Apple nor Klipsch to develop portable amps, the expected sales volume wouldn't make the effort worthy. Most people are happy with their iphone sound with the white buds, only a few thousands of us are into this higher end audio thing. Let's not forget the horrible economy, that doesn't help either.