mid range

[rbrown0678]

I've seen where many people change out mid for different ones , my interest lies in the Cornwall 1, with original drivers. in your case what were you seeking to hear in this range .

ie, upper mid, pure (as in the center) or closer to the upper bass.

I've been trying to follow the thread about PIO and wondered if your search took you in crossover upgrade with different caps ect. and why did you decide on speaker change.

Are you happy with the changer you made, and did you have to compromise, trade off's whether in Hi- or Lf.

I'm currently facing this road and seeking advice. I know the final decision will be mine but would appreciate your input.

[moray james]

Welcome why not take a look at what Bob Knows about the CW. Bob is the guy who coined the name Cornscala in the first place. Much good info. With horns bigger is better. Bob is the salt of the earth and will answer all your questions. support him if you can he is most deserving of your business. Best regards Moray James.

http://www.critesspeakers.com/cornscala.html

[rbrown0678]

moray, thanks for your response and welcome, this certainly is someone to talk with as i try to evaluate some

thoughts and experience.I have dealt with bob in the past while he still had his stock of motor caps.

actually only recently i removed his 4uf cap for a v-cap with very good results.( as always trial &error)

sometimes to good result just never know.

more musical, able to play loud with stability. still feel a need for more in upper mid. I realize its difficult to talk

sound but hoping those who seek the same goal might share their exp. thx

[djk]

"still feel a need for more in upper mid."

And what frequency range would this be?

[rbrown0678]

hi , i've read the audio range as used by those on forum, i can say i really don't know a range as in a number,

and asking seems kinda odd. what i can say is i believe the range of the type( cross over is 600 or horn range ,

that is what i assume i'm hearing.

Now hopefully with that said understanding that there is an audible point of hearing, and a cut off point of

cross over .

this is how i could best describe my upper mid statement. if this is an unrealistic request ,it might just be in my

head. And supposing i'm a little crazy, trying different things might be the only way to get there.

[djk]

I was looking for an answer in cycles-per-second (hertz).

[Daddy Dee]

rbrown,

have you recapped the crossovers already? if not this would be really helpful to hear what the stock drivers can do. doesn't need to be an expensive proposition. Sonicaps or such can present a world of improvement over the vintage factory parts.

edit: after reading your post again, think you are contemplating what to do regarding caps

when i got my first pair of LaScalas in 2003, i bought a pair of ALK universal crossovers from Al Klappenberger. improvement (over worn out caps) was huge. Later had some work done by Bob Crites built pretty much like Klipsch A and AA using GE (can) caps and later Sonicaps. To my ears the sound was just as good. I've heard people say that the ALK crossovers will perform better at higher operating volumes. That may well be true. I just don't listen loud all that much.

getting a base line to work from would be my best advice. Klipsch does not use expensive parts in their factory crossovers. I think the sonicaps are a close approximation to what the factory turned out. once done, then upgrade to your hearts content. You will have a good reference for comparison.

enjoy the music.

[Johnny's Jill]

Dave makes a fantastic replacement horn for a Cornwall

www.fastlaneaudio.com

Craig

[rbrown0678]

Daddy Dee

thank you for sharing with clarity as to the course you took when you got your la scale , and the route with

different crossover and caps. Please don't get me wrong, you did not say what made you decided to go that

route .Was there a particular area that the alk outperformed the the stock in or just across the board better.

As to all the suggestion they are valid and in particular to the base line,ive lived with the stock which, sounded

good except at higher volume, purchased a set from bob which was better . was able to compare stock to

bob's,, compared bob to v-caps which was less balance to me, too much upper range. And as stated before

switch bob'b 4uf for v cap and they never sounded better .So yes i've in this case found caps to be a possibility.

From what i've heard so far, the horn range seem to be capable of producing that upper mid. Remainder

might be ind,or res. just seeking others exp. thx

[Marvel]

RB,

A question for you might be at what levels do you usually listen, or what levels do you start having problems? For me, I'm usually getting to the loudest at around 90db. Some are just getting started. If I go higher, some CDs start to get a bit strident in the mids.

I have the original horn and driver for my LaScala mids, and an Eminence APT150 for the tweeter (same driver as Bob's CT125, but with an Eminence 100x50 horn). Since I use a low power tube amp (3.5 watt 2A3 amps), I use a fairly simple crossover. .

btw, welcome to the forums!

Bruce

[Daddy Dee]

Daddy Dee

thank you for sharing with clarity as to the course you took when you got your la scale , and the route with

different crossover and caps. Please don't get me wrong, you did not say what made you decided to go that

route .Was there a particular area that the alk outperformed the the stock in or just across the board better.

As to all the suggestion they are valid and in particular to the base line,ive lived with the stock which, sounded

good except at higher volume, purchased a set from bob which was better . was able to compare stock to

bob's,, compared bob to v-caps which was less balance to me, too much upper range. And as stated before

switch bob'b 4uf for v cap and they never sounded better .So yes i've in this case found caps to be a possibility.

From what i've heard so far, the horn range seem to be capable of producing that upper mid. Remainder

might be ind,or res. just seeking others exp. thx

Bob,

As far as the course i took, it was just sort of haphazard. not a tech type. i went from worn out stock to ALK's and at that time wasn't aware that Bob provided the service of recapping. after getting my original crossovers recapped they sounded really good. to my ears they both sounded fabulous.

i don't think i've got audiophile ears. i couldn't tell the difference between the recapped crossovers and the ALK's. leaves me a little red faced on this forum because of others that hear so much difference in caps.

there are a few things that i have heard a difference in. ie. the original crossovers with worn out caps compared with the new ALK's or the renewed original crossovers. there was a big difference there. and in that case the difference was also better. the crossover with the worn out caps yielded harsh sounding speakers.

[Guest David H]

Most of the capacitors I have heard sound very similar, with the exception of caps with high esr or ones measure 10% or more out of spec. I have not had the opportunity to hear Many of the boutique caps like vcaps etc, but I have compared Dayton's, Clarity caps, Sonicaps, Solen, Kimbercap, CDE, Jantzen, and many others.

Horns on the other hand are an entirely different story, each horn has a district sound, wood vs metal or conical vs exponential all have their strong points.

Dave

[Deang]

rbrown0678, since you liked the result with the single OIMP V-cap, why not change out the second cap with the same? I am curious why you only did the one cap. The OIMP V-cap is a great product, your experience mirrors my own.

We are dealing with orders of magnitude here. The circuit makes a bigger difference than the capacitors or other parts that inhabit them. Obviously horns and drivers make even bigger differences still. The better metallized polypropylenes definitely sound more alike than different -- the differences are sometimes subtle. I have often admitted to making a bigger deal about it than is warranted. However, oil impregnated capacitors and film and foil types clearly sound different/better.

[rbrown0678]

Daddy Dee, most grateful for your advise (to determine a base line) just realize that what i'm trying to do is to

customize my system.repeating all i have done so far, had detracted from the substance of the statement,my

base line is where i'm now.

i'm going to try and get a resistance value from spkrs to and including wire from amp.

Mr Dean you brushed the surface with much depth.

yes, v caps was another complete network before idea of splitting them, just to see. so i still do have another

opposite set that i'm able to try, for comparison

[pzannucci]

rbrown0678,

You don't state exactly what you don't like other than you don't like the sound when it gets louder. That is typical of a couple of things. First is that you may want to change the mid driver and tweeter (at least you don't need the 400hz crossover of a khorn). You will need to do modifications to the crossover for most any changes you do if you want to do it correctly. There are drivers more clean sounding than stock, the sky and price is the limit. Secondly when it gets loud, your room plays a significant role in the sound. Have you worked on room treatments?

[moray james]

Bruce the APT150 is made by Eminence and is a copy of the one which Bob sells which was and is made in Poland. Eminence used to buy the Polish units and then decided they could make their own for less. The two motors are not the same. To the best of my understanding I have the basic facts correct but I am sure that Bob will correct me if I am in error. I owned and used the CT125 and liked it a lot. Best regards Moray James.

[Marvel]

the APT150 is made by Eminence and is a copy of the one which Bob sells which was and is made in Poland. Eminence used to buy the Polish units and then decided they could make their own for less. The two motors are not the same. To the best of my understanding I have the basic facts correct but I am sure that Bob will correct me if I am in error.

The driver itself is an APT50, I know that, been following Bob's work in this from the beginning. I also have a set of Bob's CT125s, from before Eminence stated making them or having them made with the standard threads. It was the nwer version that Bob said wasn't as good.

I haven't purchased the APT50 driver (with or without being attached to the various horns they sell packaged with it) in the current form, to know if I could hear the difference.

Bruce

[Invidiosulus]

I think I purchased those APT-150's that Bruce has sometime in 2007.

The CT-125's that Bruce has, as well as the set that I have, were purchased from Bob in February, 2006.

It's a pity that eminence has changed them.

On the subject at hand though,

My experience with the older heritage series midrange is that the exponential horns sound kind of harsh and yet muffled as if certain sounds are grainy yet pushed back in the mix. Keeping the same drivers and upgrading to a cheap diy tractrix horn seems to make a world of difference.