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K 402 driver questions


juniper8

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I was wondering why, or how the Tad 4002 diaphragm is 4" and the K69 is only 2.75" and they both can work the K402 horn. Could someone verify if these numbers are correct, it's hard to find info on the K69. Also are there any other 4" phramed drivers that would also work well the the K402. Thanks in advance!!!

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I was wondering why, or how the TAD 4002 diaphragm is 4" and the K69 is only 2.75" and they both can work the K402 horn.

Maron is right - it's the exit diameter--not the diaphram diameter--that you are interested in.

The TAD TD-4002 has a 2-inch (50.8 mm) design exit diameter using the integral mounting adapter that is sold with the driver. The K-69-A also has a 2 inch design exit diameter. Both drivers are intended for the same throat diameter horns, but how each driver performs on each horn is another matter.

Here is a link to a thread that has jpg illustrations of TAD drivers: http://tad-labs.com/en/professional/unitspeaker/unit2.html?ref=topmenu1

Chris

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After folks find out how pricey the TADs are, the search is then on for something more affordable.

I think your question needs to be narrowed down a bit. It sounds like you will be using this with K-402 (so far, so good). However we can give better suggestions if you tell us whether 1) this is for a two-way or a three-way system and 2) what the intended crossover point(s) might be?

For instance, I use the K-402 in a two-way system (Jubilee) with a crossover done steeply around 500Hz or so. Although I am amazed how good the K-69 driver sounds, I prefer the JBL 2 inch drivers (2445 or the 2446). I mention these two since there are plenty on the used market. The 2446 is about $700 new and $200 used. Just make sure you get OEM diapragms designed for that particular model.

Depending on price point, drivers from B&C are also a good alternative.

The choices expand if you are crossing higher or going three-way.

Good luck,

-Tom

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After folks find out how pricey the TADs are, the search is then on for something more affordable.

Juniper8,

My pockets were not deep enough for the TADs, so discussing drivers with Bob Crites, I picked up from Bob the Faital HF20AT models. Bob had been testing this model as well as the Faital HF200 drivers. The HF20AT drivers were a major step up in sound reproduction of the higher frequencies. A few of the Forum members are also using the HF200 drivers with great success. Its nice to know there are alternatives.

Wrinkles

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so discussing drivers with Bob Crites, I picked up from Bob the Faital HF20AT models. Bob had been testing this model as well as the Faital HF200 drivers

Would you please elaborate on what Bob had observed on the Faital HF20AT versus the HF200.

Thanks

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so discussing drivers with Bob Crites, I picked up from Bob the Faital HF20AT models. Bob had been testing this model as well as the Faital HF200 drivers

Would you please elaborate on what Bob had observed on the Faital HF20AT versus the HF200.

Thanks

----------------

Additionally, it begs the question: Are these used in two-way or in a three-way configuration and is the crossover substantially above 400 Hz or not?

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so discussing drivers with Bob Crites, I picked up from Bob the Faital HF20AT models. Bob had been testing this model as well as the Faital HF200 drivers

Would you please elaborate on what Bob had observed on the Faital HF20AT versus the HF200.

Thanks

----------------

Additionally, it begs the question: Are these used in two-way or in a three-way configuration and is the crossover substantially above 400 Hz or not?

To answer the questions, let me say I have slept since then, but in our discussion I was looking for a much cheaper driver that could compete with the TADs. Bob said the HF20AT drivers factory curve was better than the HR200 curve. The HF20AT drivers were 2-3 db higher above 5Khz when compared to the HF200.

I am using the HF20AT in a two way in a K402 horns.

I tried to EQ it by ear with no mics and that turned out to be a waste of time for me. So, I used the same EQ as the TAD drivers and wow. Over the K-69-A drivers, it made a major difference.

Crossover for the Faital driver is 400 and the bassbin at 450. These are the TAD crossover points as well.

I expect Bob can give us any updates to his testing and use of both drivers. At the time he was using the HR200 drivers in his K402 horns.

Wrinkles

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More great info, thanks!!! I was going to try the K402 in a 2 way, with dual 16's or dual 14's in a simple br cabinet. The faital drivers sound interesting. I am going to hear some jbl's tomorrow that have some nice drivers that might be on par or very close to the tads...

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I tried to EQ it by ear with no mics and that turned out to be a waste of time for me. So, I used the same EQ as the TAD drivers and wow. Over the K-69-A drivers, it made a major difference.

That's interesting...that just happens to be an application of item "c" on the PWK no-BS Tribute Thread:

c) The "you can't test it at home" argument, i.e., you need an anechoic chamber to test your new speaker designs. (Well, almost: if it's really quiet outside and you have a really good set of measurement instrumentation, you might be able to test at home).

That's a pretty important since the TADs are 3-4x in terms of relative price, IIRC. That's good news for those that are thinking about upgrading their Klipsch Heritage or Professional speakers with K-402s to two-way configurations, etc., and lose the extra driver, crossover, and critical time-alignment issues between midrange and tweeter drivers/horns which is, by far, the more objectionable of the two driver/horn time alignment issues (IME).

Chris

Edited by Chris A
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More great info, thanks!!! I was going to try the K402 in a 2 way, with dual 16's or dual 14's in a simple br cabinet. The faital drivers sound interesting. I am going to hear some jbl's tomorrow that have some nice drivers that might be on par or very close to the tads...

Heard the jbl drivers today, they were 475nd's, very nice indeed! They were equilized down a bit for my tastes, but there was almost 0 horn honk! Transients in dynamic passages were very very good.. May be another canidate for the 402.
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Just an observation here as I have no hands on experience but it would appear that Beyma have some technically tricked out very smooth and extended drivers for very sane money new. Closer to home I have been loolikng for EV DH1506HP, DH2 and I just found a pair of DH1A for a couple of hundred the pair with shipping included. The DH1A is a 23.5 pound 3 inch tweeter (2 inch exit) so very affordable quality parts are available in the used market place. I very much like the idea of buying gear made in Michigan and the EV stuff is hard to beat. Even though the parts are used all my money stays at home when I buy home made product. Best regrds Moray James.

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" K69 is only 2.75" or so."

2.84", 72mm, same as the Altec 288.

A 4" diaphragm can play about 6dB louder on the lower end, if it doesn't break up at HF.

c) The "you can't test it at home" argument, i.e.,
you need an anechoic chamber to test your new speaker designs. (Well,
almost: if it's really quiet outside and you have a really good set of
measurement instrumentation, you might be able to test at home).

Then PWK was a fraud when he first started out, he did not own a microphone, and he did not build the chamber until about 1980 or so.

I don't believe in Zeus, Apollo (or any other gods), and PWK was not a god either. He was, however, a giant; and we can all stand on his shoulders. Today we can buy inexpensive test equipment that PWK could only dream about, but we still need to learn how to interpret and use what it tells us.

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Today we can buy inexpensive test equipment that PWK could only dream about, but we still need to learn how to interpret and use what it tells us.

Yes, among other knowledge, skills, and abilities (KSAs).

And anechoic chambers are used for a good reason: I now know why since I hear the results of using one effectively.

Chris
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