Thoughts on being an Audiophile

[tube fanatic]

A corollary discussion to this may be to suggest artists whose style is truly similar to that of another. For example, I've searched for years for composers whose choral music mirrors John Rutter's to no avail. Same for artists like John Adorney. The suggestions noted on Amazon or Last.FM, for example, don't even come close in my opinion. I would certainly be interested in discussing recording quality as well. Maynard

[Chris A]

Perhaps there is another way to deconflict these. I suppose having two groups: one that isn't techno-phobic that's okay with using screening criteria like the ones above, and one that doesn't. Or perhaps listing the screening data for all recordings where they are available (or pointing to them) in addition to proposing the recording itself through personal experience.

One other approach to deal with this is to have a "hi-fi thread" for the folks concerned about recording quality using some external points of reference that aren't exclusively focused on personal opinions alone, and a "classic/ historical recording thread" for everyone else that wants to talk about inspired artist performances, but their recordings might otherwise suffer for one reason or another.

Then the two groups can talk freely about their relative favorites without mediation being required.

By the way, I recommend that both these threads be placed in the "Music and Movies" sub-forum under "Entertainment"--not in the two-channel forum.

Chris

[bracurrie]

By the way, I recommend that both these threads be placed in the "Music and Movies" sub-forum under "Entertainment"--not in the two-channel forum.

I agree.

[Deang]

I don't see a single post in this thread that justifies a move out of here.

What I find interesting is how the word "audiophile" is almost always and immediately connected with the gear. Then of course everyone has to state the obvious -- that it's not about the gear, but about the music. That seems to sum up most of the three pages on the topic "Thoughts on being an Audiophile".

I like driving. I like feeling connected to the road, and since I grew up driving muscle cars, I enjoy pushing things a bit when I'm behind the wheel. For me, driving my car on a good road is as much an emotional experience as it is a physical one. In order to experience what I want to experience behind the wheel, there are a lot of cars that plain just don't work for me. I of course had a budget that I needed to stay within, and this naturally shrank the pool down quite a bit. However, I found something very nice that works very well for me.

The machine is a means to an end, and without the machine -- the right machine -- the objective or goal is not met. To say "it's not about the gear", while everyone around here does nothing but discuss gear and what kind of gear it might take to get them to where they want to be has got to be one of the most ridiculous forms of self-deception there is. Believe whatever you want, but it is most definitely about the gear. When you get the right gear, you maximize your musical experience.

If an AM radio is all you can afford or have access to, that's nice, since you can still listen to music, I get that. But this is the 2-channel forum, where it's about doing everything within our means to maximize our musical experience. I realize it's a little inconvenient, but high quality sound costs more money than good quality sound. In this area, we talk about muscle cars. If that offends you, then drop down to the General Section -- which is where we used to banish those who thought a $50 DVD player from Walmart sounded as good as a Rega Planet -- or would insist that a Pioneer receiver sounded the same as a pair of Mark Levinson monoblocks because the ABX testing said so.

If you were to compare topics of discussion in this section from even just five years ago to what's being talked about now, you would be astounded. This place has gone from discussing the sonic differences in amplifier/preamplifier topologies (tube and solid state), technical discussions about loudspeakers, crossovers, sources (turntables/arm/cartridges, CD players, processors, DACs ...) -- to anything that can be dumbed down and off the page in three days.

An "audiophile" is a person "who is enthusiastic about high-fidelity sound reproduction". I don't know about anyone else, but I'm sick and tired of this word being tossed around like it's something dirty, and I find it personally offensive. If one were to post their real thoughts "on being an audiophile" on this forum, they would in all liklihood end up ridiculed and scorned.

Thanks to DBT and ABX testing, we now know the following:

1) All amplifiers sound the same.

2) All CD players sound the same.

3) A coat hanger sounds the same as an expensive interconnect.

4) MP3 sounds the same as CD.

5) CD sounds the same as SACD.

6) High resolution PCM sounds the same as DSD.

So, for those of you bitching about the sound of your source material, you have the objectivists to thank for that.

Since it's all about the music, and we really don't want to spend a damn dollar more than we have to, I recommend that Klipsch simply remove this section of the forum.

[Thaddeus Smith]

Just to keep things in perspective... http://thewaterproject.org/

[mike stehr]

Right on, Dean!

[babadono]

Thanks to DBT and ABX testing, we now know the following:

1) All amplifiers sound the same.

2) All CD players sound the same.

3) A coat hanger sounds the same as an expensive interconnect.

4) MP3 sounds the same as CD.

5) CD sounds the same as SACD.

6) High resolution PCM sounds the same as DSD.

Dean,

you forgot:

7) All crossovers sound the same.

8) All speakers sound the same.

[Deang]

Thankfully it's not quite that bad yet, but they're working on it.

[bracurrie]

Just to keep things in perspective... http://thewaterproject.org/

Indeed.[Y]

[bracurrie]

I don't see a single post in this thread that justifies a move out of here.

I am not sure I understand why you would object to a forum that discusses higher dynamic source material. I for one don't want to *itch about the source material, I just want to find the good stuff.[H]

you have the objectivists to thank for that

Be careful here, they will come after you.[6]

This place has gone from discussing the sonic differences in amplifier/preamplifier topologies ...

I humbly apologize for being part of the problem. I am unqualified to comment with much technical specificity outside of my experiance. I do enjoy the opinions expressed here and have also learned a great deal from the discussions you have contributed to.

My objection to the term audiophile is the nature of being a phile about anything. I hope I have more balance in my interests.

BTW I am enjoying your FB site. Lots of quality eye candy, even though I don't understand the technical stuff.

[Deang]

Just to keep things in perspective... http://thewaterproject.org/

Indeed.

I was speaking in general, I wasn't trying to single anyone out. However, the first post in response to my rant exemplifies the problem perfectly: let's trivialze the topic by responding with an off topic link. I guess that's the best a guy with a 5.1 rig can come with. I felt like saying, "Hey dude, why not just sell it all and give your money to the poor." This is supposed to be the high end section of the forum - get over it.

[Deang]

I forgot to thank you for the compliment on my Facebook site. It was actually my wife's idea - I wish there was more interaction, especially since Al lurks and enjoys answering crossover and horn questions. I know what I want to do with my website, I just don't have the time!

Edit: I wasn't objecting to discussion related to high resolution source material, I was objecting to the suggestion that the threads in question should be moved to another section of the forum. Those topics are perfectly at home right here!

[Thaddeus Smith]

I have no problem with high end audio - however, the amount of attitude and arguing that goes into high end audio is absurd. Thank God my AVR can switch into "2-channel" mode so I can have a small understanding of what stereo sound is like. Some day I'll have a big boy setup in my office. Some day. I have thought about selling all my wares and donating to charity, but I much prefer armchair activism.

[Boxx]

I have no problem with high end audio - however, the amount of attitude and arguing that goes into high end audio is absurd. Thank God my AVR can switch into "2-channel" mode so I can have a small understanding of what stereo sound is like. Some day I'll have a big boy setup in my office. Some day. I have thought about selling all my wares and donating to charity, but I much prefer armchair activism.

[bracurrie]

I have no problem with high end audio - however, the amount of attitude and arguing that goes into high end audio is absurd. Thank God my AVR can switch into "2-channel" mode so I can have a small understanding of what stereo sound is like. Some day I'll have a big boy setup in my office. Some day. I have thought about selling all my wares and donating to charity, but I much prefer armchair activism.

Just keep in mind that to take anything said in a forum too seriously means you need to put it down for awhile and get some perspective. To give of yourself and take the chance of being ridiculed or worse be shown as wrong is not trivial. I celebrate the arguing as good hearted exchange of views. Its the reader's prerogative to see it how he wishes. IMHO This forum is better than most.

But I really do love your post about perspective. Well played. Especially when you think about what happened in OK.

[Chris A]

And if you think talent is dead in 2013....you need only listen to Candice Glover singing "Somewhere" over a pair of La Scala.

Now that is what I call talent!

This particular example is interesting to me. I did a search of vocalists last summer that had recorded this particular piece after dragging out a dusty old Barbra Streisand disc from the 80s (David Foster arrangement) and listening to her great interpretation with her very good (but still limited) voice. I found that many famous singers had attempted it, but I also found all of recordings somewhat lacking in some way. One of those vocalists mentioned was Leontyne Price - who had a tremendous voice, but even she had great difficulties carrying off this song.

I believe that Lenny Bernstein was actually a genius in disguise (even in 1957 when he borrowed some phrases from a couple of famous compositions to compose it for West Side Story) , but in this case he composed a number that, in later realizations by more powerful singers, simply had more juice than any mortal singer could actually provide (IMHO). The singer in the video here comes the closest that I've heard in a while to meeting the bar, but even she has difficulties.

The song in typical post-West Side Story performance actually can take everything that the singer can put out plus more. Most singers disguise their vocal limitations by using one or more devices to draw attention away. In this case, however, this particular singer might have the range of vocal power and control to actually carry it off--without additional modern stylizations, instead singing it "straight up".

This song can raise the hair on the back of the neck when done well. Better and more modern recordings of it also add a great deal to the effect.

Thanks for pointing to that video Tom.

Chris

[Quiet_Hollow]

Thanks for pointing to that video Tom.

You're welcome.

[oldtimer]

Thoughts? I defer to Bruce Lee in Enter the Dragon---"Don't think; feeeeel."

[Deang]

lmao.

[Gilbert]

I found this while looking for answers on a MAC mini audio question. Very well written.

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/blogs/paul-raulerson/audio-evolution-2013-part-one-my-take-audiophilia-328/

cool, thanks.

If memory serves me correctly, I believe someone posted an old magazine article (circa 1950's) here in 2-Channel land about 4 or more years ago, on this subject, i.e. "Being and Audiophile" or "What an Audiophile Is". I think it was copied from LIFE magazine, but can't remember....or maybe PLAYBOY; which would mean someone actually read an article from the magazine, heheh.