New 1986 Klipschorn Owner, Cheap Tweaks?

[Islander]

Where can I buy Dynamat?

Many car audio shops carry Dynamat, since they use it to damp resonances in car body panels.

[absolve2525]

Thanks! Now to find an auto audio shop nearby. I couldn't find rope caulk at the hardware store, only plumber's putty. That can be a pain to apply.

[Deang]

Don't wrap the horn, it's a silly "tweak". Once mounted to the motor board it's fine. Now, if the thing was sitting on top of the speaker unsupported, that would be different.

[absolve2525]

Hmm, I was curious about the exact effects of the damping. I recall reading similar things about the old Altec horns. If it's bolted on, it should deaden the ringing. It sounds really good without it, maybe I won't mess with it.

[moray james]

Dean: I wonder have you tried this damping tweak on metal and plastic versions of the same horn at the same time? I have read PWK's comments on this practice and I disagree with him that it makes no difference. I have found both metal and resin horns do benefit from damping. That is my opinion based on what I heard. Harder stiffer materials will resonate at higher frequencies while softer less dense materials will resonate at lower frequencies. Thinner horn walls flex more so than do thicker ones, a good example of this would be the mid horn in a Forte ll and the mid horn in a KLF20 or CF3/4. The Forte ll is a good solid thick walled resin horn while the Epic and Legend series horns (resin also) are thin walled and they flex much more as a result. I do not bother damping the Forte ll horn but I do brace (to stiffen) and damp both the Epic and Legend horns. I see no point to belittle the experimentation and efforts of others. You are free to disagree then hopefully discussion can take place and there is the posibility to learn from the experience of others.

I think that disagreements and arguments are a very good thing which should be encouraged, they are useful as they serve all sides of a debate to help see alternate points of view which might never have been consider without such discussion. I would hope that forums like this one woud foster open discussion and debate making it possible for all arguments to be put forth to examine both their strengths and their weaknesses. Best regards Moray James.

[ricktate]

You could always damp one speaker and judge for yourself. You can get the stuff from parts-express in car audio section. I just cut strips to put over the biggest area on my mids. I also sanded the casting seams ..and painted inside and out with rustoleom enamel....I know Bob has new washers for mid driver but I found ...O-ring at hardware store fits perfectly and super glued it to driver applied a dab of vaseline to ring to help it seat better. Rick

[moray james]

absolve2525: As far as Altec 811 and 511 horns go I have in all my on line reading not seen any good evidence to suggest that any amount or any type of damping
material has been able to totally stop them from ringing and so it would
seem to be something about the actual physical design as there are
other similar size cast horns whch do respond to damping and which don't
ring so much. These comments are for the most part insights from an Altec owner who is passionate about the company and it's product and who was instrumental in the beginning of the Lansing Heritage forum and who tried for a good many years to resolve the ringing issue of these horns but wh eventually gave up on them. I would imagine that the amout of ringing could be reduced but by
how much would be the question. I owned 511 horns myself a very long time ago
but way back then I had never heard word of damping them so I never tried.

Yes bolting the horn securly on to a solid baffle does reduce the ringing of a horn but it does not always make it go away be the horn metal or resin. If you apply dynamat to a horn and then mount in the cabinet you can compare the resonant quality of that horn to a non damped one, use your knuckle or tap the horns with a hard object and then compare the two sound. The differences that you hear are not going to be earth shattering, but every bit of noise that you can eliminate or reduce is a bonus and one more layer of the onion that you will have peeled off in the quest toward cleaner sound.

I used dynamat on the baskets of woofers and mid drivers. I also place a layer of dynamat ont the back pole plates of drivers including tweeters and compressin drives where applicable. I use dynamat and F-11 acoustical felt on the pole pices of compression drives and dome tweeters. I have also install dynamat and F-11 felt on the poles of woofer and mid driver, this can either be done by removing the dust cap and reinstalling after the modification or it can be done prior to a recone which is one more good reason to consider buying used dead drivers and to recone them.Yes this is all woek and some might consider it a fuss (Iknow I have felt that way myself) but every little bit does help get you closer. As always YMMV. Best regards Moray James.

[moray james]

O-Rings Thanks that is a great idea thatI never considered. Much appreciated. Best regards MorayJames.

[ricktate]

The reason I looked for O-ring to begin with I noticed the flat washer blocked some of the driver outlet. I don't know if it improves the sound but it does not block the pathway now. I looked for thick ones but only could find medium thickness but seems to work ok I think. Maybe Bob or someone could test this mod??? Rick

[maxima95]

Flat Washer for Horn

I have some new washers I purchased that I have not yet installed. But when I looked at them I saw, as you say, that they appear to block things a bit. I will likely make the hole larger before I install them. But, it would be interesting to see how the o-ring approach develops. It would also be nice to know if there is a reason for the size of the hole in the washers.

Metal Horn Damping

The metal K400 is simply unlistenable to me regardless of how well it is bolted. Having read a little bit about damping horns, and not wanting to damp too much at first, I used Dynamat Xtreme. This is thinner than Dynamat (though I recall reading that Xtreme was superior in the damping department). It wrapped around the horn very nicely. Fortunately, to my ears, it did not rob the horns of their liveliness or dynamics (which was the reason for the thinner Xtreme) or create other, worse problems. After a while, I tried a second layer a few inches in length only where the horn met the driver. It is a difficult balance to tame the ring/shout and not mess up everything else.

[moray james]

Flat washers can bulge when compressed so the amount of compression will be determined but the hardness of the washer material and how much compression is applied. Where it is possible I trim mywashers with a razor knife but this is not always possible with horns like a K700 as they are so long and narroe at the throat. You want to achieve as smooth a wall transition between horn and driver as is possible. Very good thinking and I thank you for posting your idea. So easy to find ot make one to sixe all you need is a razor knife and some Krazy Glue. Best regards Moray James.

[moray james]

Unless your horn does not have a clean round throat do not change the size of the throat to fit some available washer. You may be able to cut out a short section of your washer with a razor knife and glue the washer back together with Krazy Glue. Some experimentation may be required. The throat of your horn is the most critical part of the horn along with the flair rate and changing the size will mess it up. I have had to clean up metal cast horns which had a lot of flashing from the casting and general mess left (by the manufacturer) which should have been cleaned up prior to shipping and sometimes it is a result of a worn out mold used too many times. The throat of the horn should be perfect and round a sharp clean edge with the throat opening being the exact same diametre as the exit opening of your driver or in the case of screw on Klipsch drivers the exit opening of the screw on snout adapter.

I have hear of cases of prople with KLF20 (retro fitted) with a mid driver using a metal snout designed for a K700, that snout has an exit too small for the KLF20 mid horn. The proper snout adapter is a plastic one and has a larger exit opening than the metal ones for the K700 does. Good luck and have fun listening. Best regards Moray James.

[absolve2525]

Thanks for the tips! So far I've done the pipe insulation tweak, which was pretty easy. My left channel still needs a proper corner or false corner; its only tight on the one edge touching the rear wall. There is a gap on the other side. I'm still getting nice bass punch, however, and I like the spacious sound of the woofer horn. I still intend to get some Dynamat, but have been too busy to look for an auto sound shop on the other side of town.

[DizRotus]

Don't wrap the horn, it's a silly "tweak". Once mounted to the motor board it's fine. Now, if the thing was sitting on top of the speaker unsupported, that would be different.

+1 [y]

No harm, but unnecessary. I've wasted time and money on damping horns that don't need to be damped, so go ahead and try it. It's a hobby, not a religion.

[Marvel]

You could lay a small bag of shot (about the size of a cornhole bag) for on the top of the horn. That's the easiest to remove.

http://cornholeworldwide.com/custom-cornhole-bags.php

A one pound bag of corn might work, too.

I've never put anything on my K-400s.

Bruce

[absolve2525]

That's an interesting and easy thing to try! Bags of corn would certainly be easier to locate and remove if necessary.

[ZombieWoof]

That's an interesting and easy thing to try! Bags of corn would certainly be easier to locate and remove if necessary.

hell even a gallon Zip Lock bag filled with raw rice would work like that , add a bungee cord to hold it in place ,

you could try that & if if it didn't work ,the rice would still be eatable (beans would work as well)

L O L . . . [<)]

[Deang]

If the ID of the washer is smaller than the horn's entry, it's just because it is old and has spread out some because of years of being compressed. If you bought new ones and the ID is too small, then you bought the wrong size. Get the right ones from Klipsch parts or Bob and save yourself from all of that razor knife glue business. On the damping front, KaiserSET Guy uses bicycle intertubes and stretches them over the outside of the throat. Smart, and a lot easier than most of these other methods. A nice backup if the screws from the motor board start working loose. OTOH, if you don't hear the ringing, how will you know that your screws are loose. Man, this hobby is stressful.

[absolve2525]

Hmm, im not visualizing how a bike intertube stretches around a big horn lol. He should upload a photo. I attempted my own damping... I set a big bag of rice on top of the K400, right behind the grill. Then, I set a big bag of popcorn kernels on top of the throat, in front of the driver, stretched out along the throat. I wrapped a few long pieces of heavy duty black Gorilla tape around both, to keep them secure. I like the results! Lol.

[moray james]

constrained layer damping is a very mature technology which is used to damp circular saw blades to railroad wheels and everything in between. Anything that vibrates is a source of noise and the less noise your speaker components generate the cleaner your sound will be. Best regards Moray James.