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Crossover Roadshow


Deang

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Bob, no, I'm not retracting my apology for deleting his post, and yes, at the time, I felt like he owed me an apology. I don't know why you would think I wouldn't want PWK brought up or discussed on the forum -- I've quoted him plenty myself. Put the popcorn away Dennie, the shows over.

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Good gravy, we have yet another PWK impersonator?

Poor PWK isn't even given the respect to own his own personality trademark without every Tom, Dick and Harry posing in his costume. I wish all the poseurs here would put the Yellow Button to rest where it belongs - on PWK's grave - and show some respect for the guy that actually has accomplishments worth talking about. Every donkey on here trying to flash the "BS Button" like they are some incarnation of Paul Klipsch is getting a little over the top. Invent your own speaker that has a 60 year commercial life, then invent your own interesting personality quirk to go along with your accomplishments, and leave this poor guy's legend clean.

Ummmm PWK gave those buttons away by the thousands and wanted it to live on and on. Klipsch Corporation still sells the buttons....... You IMHO need the button tattooed on your forehead so people can consider the source.

PS: this is not on reference to your reasonable and accurate contributions in this thread. This is strictly in reference to you and as usual elitist BS about the buttons.

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Jeez, maybe we should ask the Klipsch web designer to creat a new catagory under the Entertainment section say between Gaming and Computers a new group called Dogfight Central dedicated to nothing but letting all the experts air out their feelings on the true legends website[;)] By the way my dad can beat your dad up[:o] LOL

Getting pretty hard to identify real contributions anymore[:(] Hmm, now I'm thinking under the engineering section having a group called have soldering iron will travel

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Good gravy, we have yet another PWK impersonator?

Poor PWK isn't even given the respect to own his own personality trademark without every Tom, Dick and Harry posing in his costume. I wish all the poseurs here would put the Yellow Button to rest where it belongs - on PWK's grave - and show some respect for the guy that actually has accomplishments worth talking about. Every donkey on here trying to flash the "BS Button" like they are some incarnation of Paul Klipsch is getting a little over the top. Invent your own speaker that has a 60 year commercial life, then invent your own interesting personality quirk to go along with your accomplishments, and leave this poor guy's legend clean.

Mark this has to be one of the worst replies to a post I've seen in a long time. IMHO is was totally out of line.

miketn

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Good gravy, we have yet another PWK impersonator?

Poor PWK isn't even given the respect to own his own personality trademark without every Tom, Dick and Harry posing in his costume. I wish all the poseurs here would put the Yellow Button to rest where it belongs - on PWK's grave - and show some respect for the guy that actually has accomplishments worth talking about. Every donkey on here trying to flash the "BS Button" like they are some incarnation of Paul Klipsch is getting a little over the top. Invent your own speaker that has a 60 year commercial life, then invent your own interesting personality quirk to go along with your accomplishments, and leave this poor guy's legend clean.


Mark this has to be one of the worst replies to a post I've seen in a long time. IMHO is was totally out of line.

miketn

The majority of of this thread seems that way. Its all lord of the flies in here.

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My problem is too much vanity and personality if you will are getting in the way these days and I don't enjoy trying to seperate the [bs] from the good advice and who's just trying to pump up their wares for their own profit all while dogging the good people who made this site what it is/was[:(]

The truly sad part of all this is the man is not here to clear any misconceptions and those who have no respect are never going to let him RIP! The one thing I do know and agree with is PWK is proven, all the rest on here are hopefuls but at the rate most are going they will never amount to a pinple on PWK arse and that you can say you heard here first[^o)]

The difference in style or lack there of some on here only ever offered advice and not touted how they were the awesome engineer builders they think they are but contributed to the better cause never expecting fanfare or reward (although maybe a little respect acknowledged here and there) but never too big for their britches if you get my drift. I try to stay away because it just seems like a play ground for punks anymore[:S]

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When you know something about the subject and have an objection, you form an argument and make your case. When you don't know, but want to pretend you do, you shout "BS" in a manner intended obviously to emulate the great PWK. But here is the difference. PWK could say "BS" because he had the knowledge and understanding of the topic to prove his point. He had the goods, you can say.

The most common claim you see on this forum is "BS" -backed by nothing but dead air. It is almost universally uttered without any actual argument, data, or explanation. The user assumes the personna of PWK, and assumes that just shouting "BS," or flashing some cartoon yellow button, will give him the winning position by virtue of nothing more than naked pretense. It's disgusting. It's a disgrace to the art of discourse, and it's a huge insult to the owner of that personality, PWK.

Imagine a situation where a pack of whimps went around regularly saying, "Go ahead, make my day!" pointing their shakey finger at others. That's what we have here with the hijacking of PWK's Yellow Button - people who don't have the goods to make the argument hiding behind a personna they have stolen from the grave. It's no honor to a great man to steal his personna. Here's what I have observed - the people with the least ability to back it up are the most likely to invoke the famous personality of PWK. That's exactly OPPOSITE of what would be reasonable.

If you want to pretend you are "Dirty Harry" - you ought to arrive on the scene with a .44 Mag and know how to use it.

When people take some time to gather information, organize it, present it in a reasonable way, they are going to annoyed by the drive by "BS" claims of people who either can't or won't take the time to formulate an actual argument. It's not a rare occurance here, it is an everyday ritual of a growing number of poseurs who simply don't understand that the only reason PWK could use the "BS" button was his ability to back it up. Pointing an empty finger at a bad guy wouldn't have done "Dirty Harry" much good, would it?

Making references to PWK's use of the button is respectful. Trying to co-opt his personality? Not so much.

More BS spread from an elitist wanna be from his imaginary thrown. If it pains you to read this forum and anything posted from good olde boys....then I suggest you leave or learn to ignore it. I bet if PWK was alive today he would he would happily pay for the for mentioned Tatoo...heck he would probably want to put them on your butt cheeks too!

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I don't know, think I have to side with Mark on this one. People are really doing a fine job of missing his point.

At any rate, it seems when an answer of sufficient weight is put forward the response is either ignored as if it was never given, rebutted with "well, you're wrong", or "BS". I'm certainly okay with PWK documents, I just happen to think there is more than one way of doing something right. You trade one thing for something else, you just have to decide what's more important to you -- which is why I build more than one thing.

I was interested in rigma's response since he built a Delgado designed filter with no autotransformer, a crap ton of resistors, and a zobel (for impedance correction). I wonder how he feels after finding out his 300B amp is probably down to about a half a watt. :)

D

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Indeed, many ways. And you needn't apologize for it to pinheads pretending to be PWK by hiding 'naked' behind some yellow button.

Ummmm watching Fox News and the O'Reilly Factor again I see..........I think olde Bill would classify you as the worlds biggest Pinhead...quit hiding naked behind Bill O'Reilly catch phrase would ya

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Dean:

"I criticize your approach to building crossovers. I don't tell them anything different than you already know I'm telling them! We've agreed to disagree on that issue. I believe the original networks contained losses that should be replicated in the rebuilds. Your high pass sections are too hot, always have been. So, do they also tell you the things I say as they relate to you as a person? I'm sure there's some people reading this thread who I've talked to on the phone about you -- I invite them to share."

Despite some of these multilateral responses sounding as if they had been excavated from a time I hoped was long past (I joined in 2002), I would respectfully like to submit that I disagree with your opinion that Bob's high pass sections are "too hot " and that they "always have been." There are those using his networks who have even gone so far as to attenuate the squawker further which, while reducing the output of the mid-horn, will often subsequently give greater prominance to the high frequency branch. And they have and continue to thoroughly enjoy their respective systems. I have always been an advocate for expressing opinions with qualifiers. In other words, turning the table a second just for the sake of illustration, one might then say that if his top end is overly bright -- perhaps yours is too rolled off. But again, there are those who are perfectly happy with their Dean G. networks just as they are. It's just too subjective and individualized a pursuit -- either at the designer or user level -- to suggest anything other than that we all have our own tastes, preferences, and choices of compromise. It's nice to see some others experimenting with autoformer-less networks. I built several some years ago with which I was very happy, and in fact designed them with an upward high frquency tilt -- which if not overly exaggerated, for me, gives an improved sense of life, clarity, sharper transient edge -- sounding more like truly live music, particulalrly acoustic string instruments and percussion.

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Despite some of these multilateral responses sounding as if they had been excavated from a time I hoped was long past (I joined in 2002)...

I agree Erik, which is why I didn't understand the point of steering the thread into the direction of a topic that has been completely beat to death.

I would respectfully like to submit that I disagree with your opinion that Bob's high pass sections are "too hot " and that they "always have been." There are those using his networks who have even gone so far as to attenuate the squawker further which, while reducing the output of the mid-horn, will often subsequently give greater prominence to the high frequency branch.

My use of the words "high pass" includes both the midrange and tweeter branches of the filter. If I say that section of the filter is too hot, and you say people are attenuating, then you have done a poor job of disagreeing with me.

I have always been an advocate for expressing opinions with qualifiers. In other words, turning the table a second just for the sake of illustration, one might then say that if his top end is overly bright -- perhaps yours is too rolled off.

The network in question can be set to match the Klipsch midrange output, and the tweeter section has slightly elevated output as compared to the Type AA. So, I don't think I can agree with you.

It's just too subjective and individualized a pursuit -- either at the designer or user level -- to suggest anything other than that we all have our own tastes, preferences, and choices of compromise.

From my website:

"There is no such thing as the "perfect crossover", only the crossover that works best for you and your unique set of circumstances. All of these crossovers sound great, but that doesn't mean that each one is ideal for every person or situation. We all hear differently, use different equipment, have different rooms, sit at different distances from the speakers, and have our own idea of what the perfect volume level is for our listening sessions. These factors, as well as simple personal preference, will dictate the choice of the correct crossover. I believe a big part of my job is helping you find the right crossover for your system and listening preferences. Personal experience with a multitude of crossovers and various parts, combined with over a decade of customer feedback makes me well qualified to help you make the right choice."

Thanks for you input,

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Dean: Many people have been and continue to be very satisfied with Bob's network, regardless of what you, me, or others may think about the matter. My point was really that none of our opinions can be relied upon as fact, which means that Bob's overly hot top end (that you are including the squawker in this does not really change the focal point of my response) may very well be just fine and preferred by lots of owners/users. Sorry, by the way. I just tend to think of three-way dividing networks in terms of low-pass, band-pass, and high-pass sections. Thus my interpretation of your description. It seems it was inaccurate in light of your comment. I will, however, respectfully stand by my opinion regarding individual preferences. You may rest assured that my contribution to this thread ends here.....edit: let me just add that it seems from the quote from your website that perhaps Bob's high-pass section might in fact be neither too hot, nor too cold, but, for those who like them....just right. On that we stand on common ground!

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