Deang Posted March 13, 2014 Author Share Posted March 13, 2014 (edited) When you don't see me on the forum much and/or I'm slow to respond to emails, it just means I'm getting busy. Right now it's my day job. I'm the Network Engineer for the new addition to the Air Force Museum at Wright-Patterson AFB. So, longer hours and a lot of stress, plus I've got stuff piling up on the bench. You are the second person to ask me that question this week. No, my crossovers don't support biwiring or passive biamping. I know using a small tube amp for the mids/highs and solid state is kind of popular, but all that is really happening here is mixing the character of two amps across a relatively large range (think about the amount of overlap with low order filters). I've tried this several times and I think it just sounds weird, I always ended going back to a single amp. Then you have the gain matching issue to contend with. I'm not directing the following at you specifically, but in general, anytime you provide a feature, the end user has an expectation that you will help them through any kind of problem they might encounter if the feature is related to, or somehow included in the problem they are working through. I just decided that passive biamping isn't something I wanted to support or involve myself with. Edited March 13, 2014 by DeanG 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Thank you. It was a generic question on my part. I'm not trying to address a specific issue. Can't wait to get my stuff up and running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 A little off topic, but where can I get a good spade connector for these and similar networks? They can only be a max of 8 mm outside width. I'm currently using some from Ace Hardware . Sorry if this has been posted elsewhere. Thanks, Mike I think Parts Express has gold plated ones if your looking for shiny/sexy. They have seperate black and red boots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 I dont want to start a new thread, and to be honest, I am not sure why this occurs but... has anyone noticed a distinct Doppler effect when music begins to trail off at the end of songs? this might have always been there and now that everything is so clean and pure it's more noticeable, but this seems to occur at the end of just about every song for just one or two seconds as the sound begins to trail off and happens whether listening to digital or analog. A lot of components have changed so who knows why it happens, but it really is interesting to me how this would occur at all because there no moving parts other than the diaphragm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 15, 2014 Author Share Posted March 15, 2014 (edited) Because of the path length difference between the mid-driver in relationship to the other drivers, there is a slight delay, and I mean slight. Most can't hear this. I know of two people here on the forum who can (I'm not one of them). I'm not convinced that this is what you're hearing, so how pronounced is this effect? Edit: just saw the "two seconds" comment. Wow, I have no idea. Edited March 15, 2014 by DeanG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 (edited) It begins to trail off for about a second dean... this in NO WAY effects 99.999% of the song and your explanation is precisely what I think I am hearing. Remember I have have perfect pitch and have been guitar for over 40 years so it was just something my ears picked up on. I wouldnt trade what goodness I am hearing for anything! Edited March 15, 2014 by Schu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max2 Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 (edited) I dont want to start a new thread, and to be honest, I am not sure why this occurs but... has anyone noticed a distinct Doppler effect when music begins to trail off at the end of songs? this might have always been there and now that everything is so clean and pure it's more noticeable, but this seems to occur at the end of just about every song for just one or two seconds as the sound begins to trail off and happens whether listening to digital or analog. A lot of components have changed so who knows why it happens, but it really is interesting to me how this would occur at all because there no moving parts other than the diaphragm. Since I don't have any wall treatments, I have sound that seems to "gather" in the mid horn of my La Scalas that are my rears, but only when listening to two channel audio from my mains. I never noticed it when the La Scalas were my fronts and Chorus's were my rears. I don't think this is the same issue you are having, yet I hear some funky things from time to time. I could swear sometimes I think Im listening to 5 channel audio, yet Im not. Maybe some fabric on the La Scala mid and tweet might help? Edited March 15, 2014 by Max2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Ok, back to Deans crossovers. I had to throw one in and have a quick listen. These are first impressions under less than ideal conditions (only one speaker done so far, couldn't wait). First and foremost, the mids are still a little forward but no where the TURN IT DOWN!!!!!! levels they were at previously. I think it's a character of this speaker/horn set up that I can probably live with. Bass seems a little thin but I have to remind myself that this system doesn't have a sub like most of my other systems do. I'm using the same amp now that I use on my KP-301 II's which will hurt you (no sub in that system). I can actually hear the tweeter now as it's not being drowned out by the squawker any more. Got to get the other one done and have a listen. Preliminary listening is VERY encouraging. Quick question Dean. When I hooked the positive woofer wire up to the crossover, I heard a faint "pop". I attributed it to the battery somehow. Is this normal? Just curious. Carl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 (edited) I dont want to start a new thread, and to be honest, I am not sure why this occurs but... has anyone noticed a distinct Doppler effect when music begins to trail off at the end of songs? this might have always been there and now that everything is so clean and pure it's more noticeable, but this seems to occur at the end of just about every song for just one or two seconds as the sound begins to trail off and happens whether listening to digital or analog. A lot of components have changed so who knows why it happens, but it really is interesting to me how this would occur at all because there no moving parts other than the diaphragm. Since I don't have any wall treatments, I have sound that seems to "gather" in the mid horn of my La Scalas that are my rears, but only when listening to two channel audio from my mains. I never noticed it when the La Scalas were my fronts and Chorus's were my rears. I don't think this is the same issue you are having, yet I hear some funky things from time to time. I could swear sometimes I think Im listening to 5 channel audio, yet Im not. Maybe some fabric on the La Scala mid and tweet might help? The Doppler effect I am hearing is pitch related. Like when a car drives past you with its horn blairing as the car passes it drops in pitch. Nothing big for me because its only happening, or noticeable, as the content begins to trail off at the end of a song... for about a second or so it is audible. Edited March 15, 2014 by Schu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted March 16, 2014 Moderators Share Posted March 16, 2014 I still don't see where the cans are leaking In time they would have looked like these, they were still working somehow. Now this is leaking, all the way to the wood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Smith Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Ok, back to Deans crossovers. I had to throw one in and have a quick listen. These are first impressions under less than ideal conditions (only one speaker done so far, couldn't wait). First and foremost, the mids are still a little forward but no where the TURN IT DOWN!!!!!! levels they were at previously. I think it's a character of this speaker/horn set up that I can probably live with. Bass seems a little thin but I have to remind myself that this system doesn't have a sub like most of my other systems do. I'm using the same amp now that I use on my KP-301 II's which will hurt you (no sub in that system). I can actually hear the tweeter now as it's not being drowned out by the squawker any more. Got to get the other one done and have a listen. Preliminary listening is VERY encouraging. Quick question Dean. When I hooked the positive woofer wire up to the crossover, I heard a faint "pop". I attributed it to the battery somehow. Is this normal? Just curious. Carl Awesome. Placement definitely had an impact on bass for me. Out from the walls seemed to help. I had the pop on each speaker during installation as well. I attributed it to the capacitors releasing whatever small amount energy had been stored from the battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 16, 2014 Author Share Posted March 16, 2014 (edited) Don't know, as long as nothing caught on fire I wouldn't worry about it. : ) Spoke with Bobby Crites yesterday, he's worried about a couple of things. 1) If loudspeakers with these networks get sold to someone who doesn't stay on top of the battery change outs, the batteries could leak, ruining the network. 2) I need a sticker, that should go on the speaker with other labeling, with warnings and instructions. I also did some reading on batteries, and alkaline is prone to leaking. I should probably just move to the normal variety, it's not like an alkaline type is really necessary. Edited March 16, 2014 by DeanG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Smith Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Good thing I went with the super duper lithium upgrade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 16, 2014 Author Share Posted March 16, 2014 Indeed. So now what in the Hell is Carl doing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 (edited) Don't know, as long as nothing caught on fire I wouldn't worry about it. : ) Spoke with Bobby Crites yesterday, he's worried about a couple of things. 1) If loudspeakers with these networks get sold to someone who doesn't stay on top of the battery change outs, the batteries could leak, ruining the network. 2) I need a sticker, that should go on the speaker with other labeling, with warnings and instructions. I also did some reading on batteries, and alkaline is prone to leaking. I should probably just move to the normal variety, it's not like an alkaline type is really necessary. Bob makes a good point. Like the retired EE friend of mine mentioned once, you have to "idiot proof" stuff... I would think the acid leaking from the batteries would eventually rot the wires, etc. Like how a old dirty car battery can literally rot the wires to the starter and ignition wire. I've done a small bit of information digging related to charge-coupled networks, (mostly JBL info) and I hadn't read anything with regard to complaints about batteries with physical leakage or passive networks ruined because of it. Did JBL have warning stickers about the batteries in the speakers that used charge-coupled networks? It's all a moot point if one pays attention to the battery used, but some sort of indication that a battery is being used would be beneficial in case the speakers happen to change hands. So if you don't connect the battery to the charge-coupled B2 network, you still have a stock Cornwall B2 network, just with capacitors in series, correct? I'm thinking of not using the batteries for period of time, and then connect them in. I'd like to mount the battery holders in the reflex vent area, so a guy can just pull the grilles, and access the battery through a vent hole. Use a little extra wire and mount the battery holders with Velcro. I don't know if there would be too much voltage drop from using the extra wire to mount the battery near the vent holes, however. Edited March 16, 2014 by mike stehr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axz Hout Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 So now what in the Hell is Carl doing? After I got the first one up and running, I had to go to my sons house and hang blinds. Had to then stop by Lowes and look for some oddball light bulbs. Came home, picked up my wife and daughter and went to supper. This morning, I had to usher at church. Left there and took my youngest daughter for driving lessons. Came home and changed just in time to beat my sons arrival. We put his girlfriends car in the garage and put rear brakes and shocks on it. I just finished picking up tools and washing my hands. Thought I'd see what was going on here (rest my butt) before tackling the second speaker. Wait, was that a rhetorical question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Smith Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 i don't see a single valid excuse for the delay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 If loudspeakers with these networks get sold to someone who doesn't stay on top of the battery change outs, the batteries could leak, ruining the network. Sounds like planned obsolescence. A potential future customer. The auto manufacturers have been doing that for years. I actually thought about installing an exterior battery holder on my first change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 (edited) I to am interested in what happens when there is no battery... do they revert to passive? Also, would you need to install some king of continuity jumper inplace of the battery? Have either of you done an A/B with and without charging the circuit? Edited March 16, 2014 by Schu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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