Crossover replacement

[AKBman]

It's not that I am opposed to swapping them out, it is a matter of I don't want to right now, I have other priorities, and I am still very satisfied with the K77s. As far as AKB48, I never knew they existed until I just googled it! AKBman is short for Alaska Beeman, I started using it when I was stationed near Fairbanks.

[garyrc]

AKBman, I'm not sure why you're so opposed to replacing the K-77 tweeters. I replaced mine a few months after I got my La Scalas, and I wouldn't go back to the K-77s. Bob Crites's CT125s sound much better and can do a good job of reproducing high notes that K-77s won't even play. The CT125s aren't that expensive, either.

BTW, who's your favourite member of AKB48? I assume that's what the AKB refers to.

• Are you using the original La Scala crossovers with the CT125s?
• Do the CT125s sound like they are playing at the same SPL relative to the mid and bass as the K-77s were, or are they louder or softer?
• With good program material, I like our K-77s. I even like the T35s (closer to the K-77s round magnets of about 1975) we have on our bedroom TV. On the main system, Audyssey MULTEQ XT seems to have improved the sound of our K-77s, as well as that of the Khorns as a whole (at least in our room). The curve is much flatter now. Overall, Audyssey cut a few slight peaks below 200 Hz, but the biggest difference is that it boosted a dip at ~~ 350, cut a peak @~~ 550, and boosted about 3K - 5K a lot, and 12K - 17K a lot (about an average of 5 dB for both those ranges). The overall curve is much smoother. Audyssey makes a lot of claims; among them is that they can boost or cut without the phase problems that tone controls or equalizers would produce.
• Thanks for writing K-77s and CT125s instead of K-77's and CT125's. The latter practice drives me crazy, but I see it all the time.

[Islander]

AKBman, I'm not sure why you're so opposed to replacing the K-77 tweeters. I replaced mine a few months after I got my La Scalas, and I wouldn't go back to the K-77s. Bob Crites's CT125s sound much better and can do a good job of reproducing high notes that K-77s won't even play. The CT125s aren't that expensive, either.

• Are you using the original La Scala crossovers with the CT125s?
• Do the CT125s sound like they are playing at the same SPL relative to the mid and bass as the K-77s were, or are they louder or softer?
• With good program material, I like our K-77s. I even like the T35s (closer to the K-77s round magnets of about 1975) we have on our bedroom TV. On the main system, Audyssey MULTEQ XT seems to have improved the sound of our K-77s, as well as that of the Khorns as a whole (at least in our room). The curve is much flatter now. Overall, Audyssey cut a few slight peaks below 200 Hz, but the biggest difference is that it boosted a dip at ~~ 350, cut a peak @~~ 550, and boosted about 3K - 5K a lot, and 12K - 17K a lot (about an average of 5 dB for both those ranges). The overall curve is much smoother. Audyssey makes a lot of claims; among them is that they can boost or cut without the phase problems that tone controls or equalizers would produce.
• Thanks for writing K-77s and CT125s instead of K-77's and CT125's. The latter practice drives me crazy, but I see it all the time.

I was using the original AA crossovers, updated with Sonicaps. I'm back to using them again, after five years of having the entire HF section bypassed while the speakers were JubScalas. In June, I reconnected the HF sections and moved the La Scalas behind the sofa to play surround left and right, with the new (to me) La Scala IIs now converted to JubScala IIs and performing as main left and right speakers.

The CT125s play about 3-4 dB lower than the K-77s, according to my old notes, but because of the variance between the two K-77s I was using, it's hard to give a precise measurement. It might instead be 1-2 dB. The slightly lower output has the effect of making the mids and bass tones seem stronger, which sounds okay to me. The CT125s are within 0.5-1.0 dB of each other, while the K-77s differed from each other by 2-3 dB. Whether that's because of the age of the K-77s (34 years at that point) or their production variability, I couldn't say.

I do believe that the more closely matched tweeters give better stereo imaging and better left-right tonal balance. The fact that the CT125s can play up to 20 KHz, instead of the 15 KHz or so top limit of the K-77s, helps add realism to cymbal overtones and the like, and is not just a theoretical advantage.

I don't have Audyssey or anything like it in my system. The Yamaha RXV-750 AVR does have YPAO, but I stopped using that long ago. Instead, I actually measure the distances between the various speakers and the listening position, using the fronts of the squawker drivers (not the fronts of the mid horns) as the speaker reference points. The receiver's tone controls are set at Bypass. For level matching, I use the receiver's test tone and an SPL meter.

As for confusing possessives with plurals, that bothers me as much as it probably does you. "Then" for "than" is another one, and the popular "sneak peak", or worse, "sneek peek", instead of "sneak peek", are just some examples of the horrible English that I see every day. The old habit of typing what looks right is becoming less dependable today, because the wrong usage has become more common than the correct usage of language in popular writing.

Have you noticed how "off" and "on" now mean the same thing? Normally, you would write "This movie is based on a popular book.", but now you're more likely to see "This movie is based off (or worse, "off of") a popular book." If "up" and "down" become interchangeable, things will get really confusing. Rant mode off.

[Islander]

It's not that I am opposed to swapping them out, it is a matter of I don't want to right now, I have other priorities, and I am still very satisfied with the K77s. As far as AKB48, I never knew they existed until I just googled it! AKBman is short for Alaska Beeman, I started using it when I was stationed near Fairbanks.

Welcome to the forum, Alaska Beeman, or AKBman for short. AKB48 are a huge phenomenon in Japan, and items about them pop up all the time in the news and music media over there. They also do lots of ads, for 7-11, mobile phone companies, and probably many more sales categories. They're way harder to ignore than Justin Bieber, for example. On one of the news digests I read, Japan Today, there's a regular commenter called AKBfan, so you can see why I thought you might be one of their many fans. Thanks for clarifying that.

Everyone has their own taste in music, so I try to avoid any negative comments about music that does not interest me.

There's some amazing musical talent in Japan, once you get past the mainstream pop. Here's just one example.

Shoka Okubo - All Your Love I Miss Loving:

Okay, one more. Maki Shizusawa plays some blues:

[AKBman]

Thank you Islander. I am learning more than I ever imagined here. I thought I knew a little about sound, I was sadly mistaken. My La Scalas are the only things I have left from my equipment I purchased 25 years ago. I have plans to replace the crossovers, a new amp, tube is my preference there, a preamp, a backup CD player for backup, possibly a turntable. I am looking at he tweeter, and I am intrigued by the wood midrange horns. Money dictates that I have plenty of time to do my research, and I look forward to it.

[Islander]

You're very welcome, AKBman. Like you, I thought I knew a bit when I joined the forum a month after buying my La Scalas, but I soon realized there are some real experts in this group.

I'm happy to admit that most of what I know was learned here or through suggestions seen on this forum. As well as being a group of mostly great people, it's really good of Klipsch to support this ongoing discussion site. Many of the members buy new Klipsch gear infrequently, so it's not like there's a direct connection to the company profits. Klipsch customer relations go beyond what I've seen from any other company.

Along with the Heritage speakers being relatively easy to upgrade or update, the forum represents a large and growing pool of knowledge of how best to find the best sound. The group are also pretty friendly, as you'll come to know. Even in my relatively remote location, I've met a number of other forum members, and benefitted from the experience. I hope they did, too.

I recommend that you take your time and absorb some of the wisdom here before expanding your gear collection. It takes a while to figure out what's best for your tastes and circumstances, while it's easy to get tempted to throw money around. That's fun, but you can go sideways instead of up, winding up with a system that sounds different but not necessarily better.

That said, some people do enjoy swapping parts regularly. Good for them. Sometimes that's a way you can find slightly used items at good prices.

[Deang]

It's hard to decide how to write model numbers. If I type "CT-125s", the uninitiated might easily mistake that for the model number of the part. If I write "CT-125's", they know immediately that the model number is CT-125 and that I'm talking about two of them. It's not right, but the only other choice is to refer to any part number in the singular.

[AKBman]

The two things I feel I need the most are the crossovers, and the amp. Right now I am driving my La Scalas with a Sony home theater integrated receiver. They still sound amazing, but not even close to the reproduction my old Yamaha setup could provide. The rest of it is just hopes and dreams.

[Islander]

It's hard to decide how to write model numbers. If I type "CT-125s", the uninitiated might easily mistake that for the model number of the part. If I write "CT-125's", they know immediately that the model number is CT-125 and that I'm talking about two of them. It's not right, but the only other choice is to refer to any part number in the singular.

That mix-up could occur sometimes, but the context usually shows what is meant, like "a pair of CT125s", rather than "a CT125". If it works for you, it's the way to go for you, but I think that writing things in the wrong way doesn't help the ignorant, it shows approval and legitimizes their ignorance.

When working with the uninformed public, referring to part numbers in the singular all the time is not such a bad thing. In the equipment list below my sig line, I mention "MX-D1 x 2", rather than "MX-D1s" or "2 MX-D1s", so unless someone thinks "x 2" is part of the part number, there should be no ambiguity.

[garyrc]

The CT125s play about 3-4 dB lower than the K-77s, according to my old notes, but because of the variance between the two K-77s I was using, it's hard to give a precise measurement. It might instead be 1-2 dB. The slightly lower output has the effect of making the mids and bass tones seem stronger, which sounds okay to me. The CT125s are within 0.5-1.0 dB of each other, while the K-77s differed from each other by 2-3 dB. Whether that's because of the age of the K-77s (34 years at that point) or their production variability, I couldn't say.

I do believe that the more closely matched tweeters give better stereo imaging and better left-right tonal balance ...

... As for confusing possessives with plurals, that bothers me as much as it probably does you. "Then" for "than" is another one, and the popular "sneak peak", or worse, "sneek peek", instead of "sneak peek", are just some examples of the horrible English that I see every day. The old habit of typing what looks right is becoming less dependable today, because the wrong usage has become more common than the correct usage of language in popular writing.

If I aim our calibrated measurement microphone (an inexpensive one from Dayton, I think) right at each tweeter, our two K77s produce virtually the same curve (within 1 dB PT from crossover (4.5 K) to about 12K, then truly identical above 12K. That can't be said for any other range of frequencies produced by our Khorns, or any other pair of speakers I have measured. Probably just luck.

I hate "sneak peek," even when spelled correctly. I just say "preview." I guess I'm just a fuddy duddy.

[Islander]

I hate "sneak peek," even when spelled correctly. I just say "preview." I guess I'm just a fuddy duddy.

Being a fuddy duddy may be better than being a rhymin' Simon...

[AKBman]

Thanks to TK, I am now waiting like an expectant Father to try out the AL-3 crossovers! Generally I turn to Jazz, or classical music for sound testing, Pink Floyd, Wish You Were Here is a good one as well. Just wish I had a better amp for the process, but good things come to those who wait.

Dave

[AKBman]

FedEx delivered the AL-3s today just before I left to come to work. I will do the install this weekend when my schedule is clear. I will post my impressions of the difference between the AL type, and the AL-3. I am giddy as a school boy!

Dave

[Deang]

Dave,

Don't forget to email me your shipping address so you can be added to the Roadshow list.

dgwescott@gmail.com

[AKBman]

Sir,

You should have an email in your inbox! Thank you again.

Dave

[NBPK402]

Wow, thanks TK, I think we may have a winner! So now, it is new improved crossovers, a tube amp, and an improved mid range, say a Fastrac LaScala, this is going to take me a little while, and I will be looking into the bass bin beefup. Muel, the Caps from 89 are still working, just seems to take more juice to get sound from the speakers, one is far worse than the other. I bought these speakers when I was stationed at RAF Bentwaters in the UK, had them in a 12x12 dorm room, for a while I had the La Scalas, and a set of Cerwin Vega CD-90s, the Cerwin Vegas were too much bass for me. I ran everything back then with a Yamaha C-65/M-65 preamp/amp setup, now I am using a Sony surround sound system in 2ch mode.

Small world... I bought my first pair of LaScallas from RAF Lakenheath in 1979.

[AKBman]

Roadshow Crossovers are here, will test them out this evening with a good friend who is a Chorus II owner. Totally stoked!

[tk49]

Have fun.

[AKBman]

These are awesome!! Even my "it sounds good on the boom box" wife says the difference is amazing!

[Marvel]

Pretty cool, isn't it? My DHA2 crossovers sound really good, but the ones from Dean up the ante quite a bit.

Bruce