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This is technically a question...except it's in the technical aspect


AUDIOandME
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I guess I should preface this with "Rated ROFL. Extreme laughter highly likely".

So I was perusing Agon (as I often like to do so... never know what deal you'll come across) and the price tag caught my eye.

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/speaker-mit-oracle-v1-3-hr-8ft-pr-factory-b-stock-articulation-rating-105x-2013-08-07-cables-85641

Thereafter, I realized what I was looking at and I said to myself "I wonder who buys these types of things?". That right there is the question. [:|]

But I mean really, does anyone even take into consideration the cost to added value ratio when looking at something like this? This is my holy grail of "what a crock" thus far for me in this hobby.... Now I know some that will view this will feel quite alienated or insulted, to those I say we all have our opinions and I am not taking a stab at anyone. So please, let's keep it civilized.

Some reference material for your viewing pleasure:

http://www.mitcablesexpress.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&category_id=67&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=207&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=14

http://dagogo.com/mit-oracle-v1-3-hr-speaker-interface-and-oracle-matrix-50-proline-xlr-review

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I've been reading the MIT ads for years, and the "articulation points" concept still doesn't make any sense to me. At some point, they'll probably supply a remote control for their higher end cables, so you can dial them in from your listening position for best performance.

Remember, before you spend big money on quality sources, amplification or speakers, the cables are what carries all that music, so be sure to get the best cables you can afford. That other stuff can come later, after you get the right cables, and the right cable elevators. And maybe you should demagnetize any rebar you have in your floor. I'll stop now, before it gets any sillier.

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Improvements in audio by using better cables has been demonstrated to be nominal. It doesn't make sense to spend large piles of cash on anything that provides little value. I am also a car guy, and I would liken this to spending $20,000 on a steering wheel for a car. There are models almost as good for $1,000. You are still spending way more for it than you should, but if it is a very nice car, go for it! But $20,000?!?! How about the $350,000 watches at Harrods? Do they work that much better than the dollar watches at the dollar store? You are very right, and I think anybody who has any sense of the value of money would look at these B-stock cables for 18 grand, and either be sad, angry, or laugh that there are people in this world who have so little sense and yet that much excess money.

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I gotta say, i'm loving all these responses. This is answering my question quite well. I am really glad you folks have so many different perspectives and insight on this. [:P][:D]

Improvements in audio by using better cables has been demonstrated to be nominal. It doesn't make sense to spend large piles of cash on anything that provides little value. I am also a car guy, and I would liken this to spending $20,000 on a steering wheel for a car. There are models almost as good for $1,000. You are still spending way more for it than you should, but if it is a very nice car, go for it! But $20,000?!?! How about the $350,000 watches at Harrods? Do they work that much better than the dollar watches at the dollar store? You are very right, and I think anybody who has any sense of the value of money would look at these B-stock cables for 18 grand, and either be sad, angry, or laugh that there are people in this world who have so little sense and yet that much excess money.

Mustang, I too am a car guy so I make comparisons like that all the time. I am in total agreement here except maybe the watch thing. Unless those babies have like 20 carrot diamonds on em', i'd be in total awe....but that doesn't add to the FUNCTION which is what we're talking about here so probably bad example

Anyway, the basis here is no matter who you are is there really justification to dropping that kinda cash on WIRE? Even if you are someone the believes the fact wires make a huge auditory difference I can't see spending beyond $300-500. That'd be like me trying to explain how spending $2000 on a shift knob will enable me to shift faster and decrease my time by .002 seconds.

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I would guess that the types of people who buy this stuff have a couple of things in common:

1) They REALLY don't know or understand what the product actually does

2) They have so much money it doesn't matter. Their day-to-day spending is on an entirely different playing field than us budget minded audiophiles.

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None of those expensive mechanical watches is as accurate as a quartz-controlled Timex, but that's not the point. It's not a timepiece, it's jewellery that tells everyone you're really really rich, and also happens to have a time readout.

Items like that are sometimes called Veblen goods, in which the primary selling point is the price, not any obvious function of the item.

From Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good

Klipsch ran into a problem with buyers who wanted speakers that were so expensive that their pricetags would be a bragging point. The top of the home line, the Klipschorn, sounded and looked great, but didn't cost enough.

The engineers got to work and came up with the Palladium line. The Palladium speakers sound great and look great, and cost enough to appeal to the market segment that looks at the price tag, not to see if they can afford the item, but to see if it costs enough to impress their friends. That's one category of Palladium buyers, and I don't think there are any on the forum.

Instead, I think the Palladium owners on the forum are music fans who want the best speakers that Klipsch makes.

However, those non-members who are seeking expensive speakers as status symbols buy a lot of stuff, and even in recessions and depressions, they can still afford expensive stuff. That makes them a really good market segment to tap into.

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None of those expensive mechanical watches is as accurate as a quartz-controlled Timex, but that's not the point. It's not a timepiece, it's jewellery that tells everyone you're really really rich, and also happens to have a time readout.

Items like that are sometimes called Veblen goods, in which the primary selling point is the price, not any obvious function of the item.

From Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good

Klipsch ran into a problem with buyers who wanted speakers that were so expensive that their pricetags would be a bragging point. The top of the home line, the Klipschorn, sounded and looked great, but didn't cost enough.

The engineers got to work and came up with the Palladium line. The Palladium speakers sound great and look great, and cost enough to appeal to the market segment that looks at the price tag, not to see if they can afford the item, but to see if it costs enough to impress their friends. That's one category of Palladium buyers, and I don't think there are any on the forum.

Instead, I think the Palladium owners on the forum are music fans who want the best speakers that Klipsch makes.

However, those non-members who are seeking expensive speakers as status symbols buy a lot of stuff, and even in recessions and depressions, they can still afford expensive stuff. That makes them a really good market segment to tap into.

That's very informative Islander. So goods (i.e. jewelry) I can understand. Speakers, I can understand. But something that either will do very little/practically nothing/nothing and will never be seen/hidden in the background (aka a wire) that's just absurd. I'd rather just like buy a whole buncha gear or buy inanely expensive wire and give the rest to charity if i wanted to blow 20-30K.

I apologize to everyone who looks through this thread for my incessant rambling. I guess ordinary folk like me will just never understand things such as this, just beyond my comprehension.

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That's very informative Islander. So goods (i.e. jewelry) I can understand. Speakers, I can understand. But something that either will do very little/practically nothing/nothing and will never be seen/hidden in the background (aka a wire) that's just absurd. I'd rather just like buy a whole buncha gear or buy inanely expensive wire and give the rest to charity if i wanted to blow 20-30K.

I apologize to everyone who looks through this thread for my incessant rambling. I guess ordinary folk like me will just never understand things such as this, just beyond my comprehension.

You're right, nearly-hidden items don't have the same brag value, so why spend the money? Since I'm not at the income level of having money to throw away, I can only guess why anyone would spend tens of thousands on speaker wire.

My guess is that once you've spent a few hundred thousand on the rest of the system, you'd feel cheap or stupid if you spent only a few hundred on any item. Everything must be to the same standard as your $10,000 phono cartridge and $7500 phono preamp. The $6000 stand that your $30,000 CD player is sitting on would be embarrassed to have Home Depot cables hanging off it.

I didn't just make up those numbers. There are audio components that cost that much and more. If I ever win a big lottery, I'd like to have a turntable with the Tri-Planar Ultimate 12" tonearm mounted on it. In the meantime, any $9800 (plus tax) tonearms will remain way, way, out of my reach.

A recent test of that tonearm: http://www.audiophilia.com/wp/?p=11024

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None of those expensive mechanical watches is as accurate as a quartz-controlled Timex, but that's not the point. It's not a timepiece, it's jewellery that tells everyone you're really really rich, and also happens to have a time readout.

And as jewelry it has an intrinsic value because of the precious metals from which they are made. It seems the cable companies, at best, use gold plated connectors and silver wire. If the silver wire is thick enough there might be $250 intrinsic value in a set of cables that sell for thousands and make a subtle difference, if any, in performance.

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Some pretty good evidence right here which should pretty much sum everything up in this thread: http://www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/speaker-cable-length-differences-do-they-matter

Now this is not say that I do not agree that there are variances in QUALITY of the wire itself and the construction... but $1000 wires [8-)]

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Klipsch ran into a problem with buyers who wanted speakers that were so expensive that their pricetags would be a bragging point. The top of the home line, the Klipschorn, sounded and looked great, but didn't cost enough.

The engineers got to work and came up with the Palladium line. The Palladium speakers sound great and look great, and cost enough to appeal to the market segment that looks at the price tag, not to see if they can afford the item, but to see if it costs enough to impress their friends.

They also put out a special addition of the Khorn -- at an appealingly higher price -- that had a diamond embedded in the cabinet.

There are lists of speakers "over $5,000, or "over $10,000" apiece (not per pair). Up until recently the Klipschorn wasn't expensive enough to make either list. These lists are singularly wrongheaded, IMO.

I know someone who habitually tells guests what he paid for every new item in his house. I'm surprised he doesn't have price tags on them. In Paul Goodman's (great) surreal novel, The Empire City, one of the characters does have price tags on things in his house, including his children.

Some businesses maintain a list of products and services that are outrageously overpriced in order to attract the people we are talking about. A friend's uncle ran a business in which one of the services was labeled with a coined word -- a combination of Latin, Greek, and Yiddish -- that described just what he was doing to elite customers who availed themselves of the service. I can't reproduce it here.

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Mustang Guy, your spot on,do to finacial constraints I subscribre to the Rodger Russell spkr wire therory.If the run isn't to long 16 gu lamp cord zip will work .I didn't quite go there but if the former lead designer and engineer at McIntosh w/ all his patents and degrees says that I'm w/ that guy and drink his Kool Aid.I do believe that if it sounds good to you that's all that matters and keeping up w/ the rich Jones' does not work for me.My main run to my Polk SDA 2bs is14 gu jacketed w/ a spred of 7' w/ almost an equilateral triangle to my seating position.All other speaker sets and H/T are w/ my world famous 14 gu clear.

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Maybe I haven't kept up, but I know of only one speaker cable test that compared listener rated quality with a very important variable built in; that variable was whether the listeners knew which cable was being used. As long as the listeners were aware of which cable was "playing," they had distinct preferences. When the listeners were blind to which cable was in use, the statistically significant preferences disappeared,

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