psg Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Hi all, I have a set of KPT-100 to use as rear surrounds in a room that is not ideal. The rear wall has a door where I would ideally put one of the speakers. Here's my first option, with speakers close together (the cardboard cutouts show speaker locations on the wall). Speakers are likely spaced too close from eachother and are not symmetric with the center. The sweet spot isn't so badly located but the second row seating would have a speaker directly behind a seat, off to the center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted August 13, 2013 Author Share Posted August 13, 2013 Here's my second. Here, the KPT-100 would be mounted on wegdes to angle them inward toward the sweet spiot of the first row. The speakers are 11 feet part. On the plus side, they are completely out of the walk way. The second row would get a wide dispersion, but nobody would be too close to a speaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted August 13, 2013 Author Share Posted August 13, 2013 The last option would be to place the KPT-100 sideways, using their slanted shape to partially angle the sound toward the seats. I would not build a wedge in this case. The speaker on the left would be mounted flush to the wall,and would intrude a bit into the door molding. Doesn't bother me. The right speaker would have to be mounted about 3/4" off the wall using a cabinet mounting wedge since I don't have access to the wall behind it (concrete). I suppose I could use a similar spacer on the left for symmetry (and let the speaker float over the door molding). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted August 13, 2013 Author Share Posted August 13, 2013 Here's what the left side (looking to the back) would look like with the side surround fairly close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted August 13, 2013 Author Share Posted August 13, 2013 ...and the left side. Notice that the surround speaker on this side is farther away. The room layout is symmetrical on the front but the back wall is shorter so I have less space on the left side (and thus the need for the inset surround speaker). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 My best advice would be not to stress and put them where it's easiest to mount. The rear surrounds will be level matched when you calibrate, just be sure they're pointed at the seated position. Your head is designed to hear things in front and to the sides of you. Just the design of your ears precludes acute rearward hearing. Unless all other speakers are silent, it's hard to hear much of what's going on back there. At times, I'll think my rears aren't working and I'll turn my head one way or the other and find that they're working fine. They're great however for filling the room with concert applause, rain, crowd noise, etc. I've found that they're the least critical for positioning and can be heard better if not directly behind you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappydue Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 http://www.thx.com/consumer/home-entertainment/home-theater/surround-sound-speaker-set-up/ descent read for ya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted August 13, 2013 Author Share Posted August 13, 2013 Wow, that link suggests that I should place them almost side-by-side, like in picture #1 but with the right speaker closer to the other one, symmetrical with the projector! That would sure be an easy, flush mount. A bit more intrusive into the room living space than #2 or #3, but not bad at all! http://www.thx.com/consumer/home-entertainment/home-theater/surround-sound-speaker-set-up/ descent read for ya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappydue Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 If you scroll down to the dts-hd set, that is how I run mine. I don't use any thx settings on my receiver at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MechMan Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Peter I would go with your first picture locations. I have mine very similar and sound is very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted August 13, 2013 Author Share Posted August 13, 2013 If you scroll down to the dts-hd set, that is how I run mine. I don't use any thx settings on my receiver at all. Ah, missed scrolling down... So THX suggests a modified #1, with speakers close together, and Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio suggest 60 degree spread between the two rear speakers: just about exactly #2 or #3! Interesting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Peter, Glad the speakers made it OK. In looking at your setup a few things come to mind. 1. I run a 6 speaker surround at the shop, and it sounds terrific. That is, I have a single center rear speaker. As Carl said, the rear surround does less than the surrounds and the mains. Also, the center rear is in mono. 2. The first option actually looks the best. 3. In the other options, it seems like the rears are mighty close to the side surrounds. It seems like having the sides and rears farther apart would be more important than having the two rears farther apart. 4. Most of the people who have responded to your questions seem to be in consensus that option #1 is the best in your room. Maybe somebody can tell me if the HD surround modes have stereo rear channels. That would explain the difference between the THX and the HD's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappydue Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 My guess would be that thx has their special mode as they called option one where they want them close to create an almost 6.1 effect. But 7.1 is 7.1. 7 discrete channels of audio and I've never read anywhere that they are combined. I would prolly go with the option to have them slightly angled in at everyone just to make sure everyone gets a piece of the awesomeness of the home theater. That's right! Awesomeness. Plain and simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 My guess would be that thx has their special mode as they called option one where they want them close to create an almost 6.1 effect. But 7.1 is 7.1. 7 discrete channels of audio and I've never read anywhere that they are combined. I would prolly go with the option to have them slightly angled in at everyone just to make sure everyone gets a piece of the awesomeness of the home theater. That's right! Awesomeness. Plain and simple. I don't believe that in all 7.1 encodings that the back speakers are mono, but I know in many of them they are. You can Google it if you want to do some research yourself, but here is a little clip from http://www.avtruths.com/dolbydts.html: Here are the "Turn 5-speaker into 7-speaker" surround formats (plus subwoofer): (Dolby Digital 5.1EX) This was Lucasfilm's way to make more money and plug "Episode One" back in 1999. Turning 5 speakers into 7 speakers with the addition of 2 NON-DISCRETE "center rear" speakers (in MONO), working closely with THX, Dolby Labs had to call this new audio format "THX Surround Ex" for at least 3 years until the contract was up and it was renamed "Dolby Digital Ex": (DTS-"Extended Surround") DTS's revenge for "Dolby Ex", the "DTS-ES 5.1 Matrixed" is also 7 speakers instead of 5 and the 2 added NON-DISCRETE "center rear" speakers (also in MONO) can be discrete but usually aren't and when they are, it is then called "DTS-ES 6.1 Discrete", thus an improvement over Dolby Ex and continuing the arms race between the two digital surround formats: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted August 14, 2013 Author Share Posted August 14, 2013 I agree that Doldy Digital EX has a mono rear signal, but that encoding isn't used on Blu ray, where Dolby True-HD and DTS-HD are fully discrete 7 channels. That of course doesn't mean that they can't duplicate the channel for a mono effect, but discrete channels are possible. Maybe it's the optical illusion of wide-angles pictures, but I am surprised people are saying that #2 and #3 would lead to side and rear surrounds being too close. The geometry for thecenter front row would be very similar to the layout shown here, with the 60 degree back angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted August 14, 2013 Author Share Posted August 14, 2013 Here's a sketch of the room layout to give you a better idea of the geometry associated with the options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZombieWoof Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 after seeing the diagram Myself I'd do #1 #3 the speakers are too close to the surrounds for me I had a hard time with the photos as no sense of depth for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted August 14, 2013 Author Share Posted August 14, 2013 after seeing the diagram Myself I'd do #1 #3 the speakers are too close to the surrounds for me I had a hard time with the photos as no sense of depth for me Interesting. So given that #3 gives me the suggested 60 degree angle, does that mean that you don't use a 60 degree angle yourself? EDIT: This link also suggests that #2 or #3 would be better than #1: http://www.dolby.com/us/en/consumer/setup/connection-guide/home-theater-speaker-guide/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted August 14, 2013 Author Share Posted August 14, 2013 Maybe it's the optical illusion of wide-angles pictures, but I am surprised people are saying that #2 and #3 would lead to side and rear surrounds being too close. I just measured and the side surrounds are close to 7 feet from the back wall. Is that really too close? If so, you need a much larger room to get that 60 degree spread between the rear surrounds. I wonder how the trend to skinny long HT rooms deals with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TasDom Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Those look like they'll be nice addition to you room. Maybe if you can loose / temp. mount at all 3 locations and see what sounds best at the MLP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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