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KLF 20 in a "High End" System


JoshT

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Hello everyone,

A couple years back, I posted a question about why Klipsch has not marketed the Legend series speakers as more of a high end speaker. I suppose the answer is pretty clear: Klipsch can sell more speakers through the better mass market shops (e.g., Tweeter) than through local high end shops. But I have always suspected that the Klipsch sound would compete even better with much,much more expensive speakers if matched with the right equipment (notwithstanding the fact that they sound darn good with entry level equipment as well).

Well, I believe I have proved my point. I recently have gone a little nutty in bifurcating my living room "Home Theater" system into two systems -- a very nice Home Theater system that kicks @ss for movies and a true high end 2 channel stereo system.

So, with that goal, I bought the new Rotel processor to replace an aging Sherwood Newcastle processor. The Rotel is very nice. It has all the slam and bass of the old Sherwood, but sounds much more refined with greater detail.

Then I removed the Rotel entirely from the circuit for 2 channel stereo by purchasing a Conrad Johnson Premier 17LS preamp (which has a theater loop for HT). And then I bought a two channel solid state CJ power amp, the MF2250, for stereo, setting aside the Rotel 5 channel amp for use with the center and rear surrounds only (with two available channels if I go 7.1 in the future).

SUCCESS! The KLF20s sound absolutely amazing. There is no harshness in the midrange or treble anymore except with the very worst of recording, and the dynamics and bass slam are better than ever. My most skeptical of friends (including those who own Classe/Theil combos) ooh and ah over the sound I get. Intellectually they think I should upgrade my speakers now that they cost about 1/3 as much as the preamp alone, but then the listen and say, "Gee, I dunno, perhaps you SHOULD hold onto these!"

Next move -- improve my vinyl rig (a Regal Planar 3 with Grado Silver) and CD player (currently using a Sony SS7700 DVD player as DVD player and CD player).

I am open to suggestions on a good CD Player that would fit nicely into this system. I am thinking of something from Cary, but am open to suggestions. The Sony is not bad at all -- it really shines in this system, but I'd love to improve on it. The Rega is quite nice, but I am considering something from VPI or Basis.

What do you think? I would love to have an all U.S. system for the 2 channel (though probably couldn't afford to do that for the HT system too). Just think that would be cool.

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Nice to see you back on the Klipsch Forum Josh. It's been a while!

Now Josh, I suggested you go with a tube preamp almost two years ago. See all the misery you could have saved yourself if you would have listened to meSmile.gif

I've been busy too. I just biamplified my RF7's with two triode amps. Seems there is no end to this madness. Ain't it fun!

Your CD question. So how long have you had the Sony? I'm not familiar with that model number. The reason I ask is because the new Sony's using the latest DACs are really good. Have you been spending any time at the Hi-Rez Forum at The Asylum?

The Cary is a great machine. Hard to go wrong there, and it would be a good match with your KLFs. However, I think I have pretty much decided most of the 'high-end' machines emasculate the highs in their attempts to emulate analog. OTOH -- this might be a good thing with the KLF's since they are a little more forward in nature than my RF7's.

f>s>

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Deanf>s>

AE-25 Super Amp DJH * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * Klipsch RF7s f>s>

Metal drivers make metal music shinef>c>s>

This message has been edited by deang on 07-02-2002 at 10:46 PM

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Josh,

This is a wild. I was just about to post asking about KLF-20's and how they sound. I have SF-2's as my main in my Livingroom HT setup but use them mostly for casual 2 channel listening with a HH Scott tube amp. I'm thinking about getting some KLF-20s to replace them with. I am a rock and roll nut mostly 70s and early 80s stuff. Will the KLF-20 do the trick ??

Craig

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Nos.gif

HH Scott 299 Amp

HH Scott LT-110B Tuner

HH Scott P-87 Turn Table

JVC JL-F50 Turn Table

Sony CDP-CA7ES CD Drive

1985 Walnut Heresey I W/Layne Audio Woofers

KSW-15 Subs>c>

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Craig,

The KLF series are considered by many to be the best 'rock' speakers ever made.

Did you know KLF-30's having been popping up on uBid? You can probably get them to your front door for less than a $1000.

f>s>

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Deanf>s>

AE-25 Super Amp DJH * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * Klipsch RF7s f>s>

Metal drivers make metal music shinef>c>s>

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A pair of 20's for less than $400?

That's a pretty outrageous deal. I wouldn't think the 30's are more than twice as good. More bass, more slam for sure. But for less than $400 I would be doing the 20's.

f>s>

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Deanf>s>

AE-25 Super Amp DJH * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * Klipsch RF7s f>s>

Metal drivers make metal music shinef>c>s>

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Hi Dean and Craig,

Yes, the KLF20s will certainly do the trick. And with a Scott tube amp they will sound very, very nice I am sure. They are transformed with the CJ tube/ss combo!

The S7700 is about 2 years old -- when it came out in 1999 or so it was Sony's flagship DVD player. Their newest DACs are probably better, but the S7700 was well known for having a very nice 2 channel internal DAC when it came out. BobG has sung its praises.

Still -- I want something better.

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I should also add that I have not heard the KLF30s. From what others have said, I gather that the KLF30s have even greater "slam" and dynamics and efficiency then the KLF20s, but the KLF20s sound more neutral and in fact go deeper in the bass. Again, just what I have heard from others.

Even at full-frieght ($1,500), which is what I paid 3 years ago when the speakers were still current models, the KLF20s are a BARGAIN. I think they compare nicely with speakers in the under $5,000 range if properly matched and placed. For the price you have seen, why not just grab them?!

Not sure about the finish you describe though. The Legends never were in a cherry finish. They came in Black Satin, Mahogany (beautiful), Light Oak and Medium Oak (which is what I have -- quite a nice golden color).

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Josh, please don't forget about diminshing returns.

I'm sure everybody here is sick of me saying this, but since you haven't been here in a while...

In 1996 I bought an Anthem CD-1 player with a tubed output. I paid $1700 for that thing. It used some of the best parts throughout.

I bought a Sony DVP-S9000ES recently to try out SACD, and as is usually the situation I find myself in -- the Anthem had not sold yet when the Sony arrived. I had almost a week to compare them head on.

I wrote a review that details the comparisons at the Asylum.

In short, the Sony stomped the Anthem.

Since the Cary and other high end offerings are newer, you may get an increase in performance -- but I believe you will find it miniscule.

Sink your money into a tube amp instead!

f>s>

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Deanf>s>

AE-25 Super Amp DJH * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * Klipsch RF7s f>s>

Metal drivers make metal music shinef>c>s>

This message has been edited by deang on 07-03-2002 at 12:16 PM

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i may be biased Wink.gif, but if you like to rock more go for the 30s. imo the reason the 20s are labeled more subtle & refined is cause they don't slam as much. otherwise identical mid & tweet horns (i think).

& this 20s extend lower than 30s & 10s extend lower than 20s stuff is some kind of quirk that defies physics in imho. i've never seen it really explained well & think its more to do w/ klipsch measuring technique of the time.

i mean the 30s will still have more output at 30hz i would think though i haven't done the a/b tests in home. not saying the 20s or 10s aren't great. & for some there may be a value advantage over the 30s, but not here. i love the slam & value it higher i guess. Biggrin.gif

besides if you cut the speaks to a fine sub @ 40hz or higher as one should, extension below 40hz into the 1st octave don't matter. get the 30s. jmo. Smile.gif

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My Home Systems Page

This message has been edited by boa12 on 07-03-2002 at 02:36 PM

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Hey Boa12,

I really don't want to engage in a debate over the relative merits of the 20s vs. 30s, since I have not ever heard the 30s and the point of my post was really to say that the 20s, and I'm sure the 30s too, sound really, really amazing with the right electronics. The list price of my preamp is 3 times the list price of the KLF 20s, and yet I don't feel they fall short in anyway.

I will say, though, that I had KLF10s for about two weeks and they did go deeper then the KLF20s. They were not as efficient, and I didn't like the way they sounded very much, but the bass was more pronounced. Since I haven't heard to 30s, though, I cannot compare the two.

Suffice it to say, the 20s and 30s are gems that sound really nice with the right budget electronics, such as Rotel and NAD, and really shine with higher end electronics too.

JoshT

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jump on the 20's!!! they have THE SAME mid and tweet as the 30's, so they MUST sound similar cwm6.gif KLF'S ARE SOME OF THE MOST KICK A$$ ROCK AND ROLL SPEAKERS ON EARTH!! i listen to mostly classic rock-60's/70's/80's to today's rock and these puppy's will put YOU in the arena/studio!!

get 'em!!

avman.

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1-pair klf 30's

c-7 center (looking for 1-m.o.klf-20)

ksps-6 surrounds

RSW-15

sony strda-777ES receiver upgraded to v.2.02 including virtual matrix 6.1

sony playstation 2

sony dvpnc 650-v 5-disc dvd/cd/SACD changer

dishnetwork model 6000 HD sat rcvr w/digital off-air tuner

sony kv36xbr450 high-definition 4:3 tv

sharp xv-z1u lcd projector w/84" 4:3 sharp screen

Bello'international Italian-made a/v furniture

panamax max dbs+5 surge protector/power conditioner

monster cable and nxg interconnects/12 gua.speaker wire

Natuzzi red leather furniture set

KLIPSCH-So Good It Hz!

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