The BEST way to clean & preserve vinyl

[Mallette]

Yes, that's it. Couldn't recall if I'd put it up or not but apparently didn't. I have decided to hunt down copies of the other 11 volumes of the RCA Jazz Encyclopedia. The one I posted is really great stuff well transcribed from 78s. 

Dave

[DaveTheTrumpeter]

3 minutes ago, Mallette said:

Yes, that's it. Couldn't recall if I'd put it up or not but apparently didn't. I have decided to hunt down copies of the other 11 volumes of the RCA Jazz Encyclopedia. The one I posted is really great stuff well transcribed from 78s. 

Dave

Let me know if you need me to fix other photos, I'll repair them in Photoshop CC and I'll send them back to you.

 

David

[larryk]

I have tried cleaning records many different ways, by hand and with a VPI.  The best method I have found is ultrasonic cleaning.  You need a large enough cleaner to fit the lower part of your records.  Best to go with a higher frequency such as 80hz rather than the more common lower frequencies.  The low frequencies are good for cleaning grease off car parts but would not want to put my records in there.  I found a Vibrato cleaner and there is a company called Vinyl Stack that sells a good system for cleaning 3 records at a time.  Overall less expensive than a VPI but much faster and better cleaning.

 

 

[Mallette]

80hz? Never knew the frequencies involved, but since it it referred to as "ultrasonic" presumed them to be 20khz or more. 80hz is anything but ultrasonic and I'd think that even when transmitted to liquid vibrations loud enough to do anything would be clearly audible.

Dave

[larryk]

My bad. I should have said 80khz.

 

Larry

[Mallette]

37 minutes ago, larryk said:

My bad. I should have said 80khz.

Well, that is definitely ultrasonic for earthlings...

Dave

[DizRotus]

Dave @Mallette

 

I have an opportunity to get a Dual 1229 for the cost of shipping.  Hard to go wrong there, but I only want it if it will enable me to play 78s.

 

In addition to a table that spins at 78rpm, what do I need in terms of a cartridge and phono preamp?

 

Thanks for sharing your expertise.

[Mallette]

Stanton 500AL with 78 stylus will work well. Also Shure M44 with correct stylus. Audio-Technica VM670SP is a good one at 150.00. Shure M78S at about the same price. 

Ortofon 2M 78 is excellent at 125.00. Grado 78C is another excellent one.  Lots of debate over whether the cartridge should be "true mono" or not. I've not heard a great deal of difference. However, the BIG difference comes with the addition of the RekOKut Re-equalizer at a bit over 300.00. It provides over 50 different curves and goes in line with the RIAA phono preamp you have already. For that, Technolink TC-778 is a fine choice at less than 70.00 or so. Actually, it may be the biggest bargain in outboard phono preamps as I find the sound of it to be quite excellent for modern LPs as well. It means you can use a TT with interchangeable head shells to switch back and forth for either use. Same is sold under the RekOKut brand for a little more money.

So, turntable not included, your at about 500.00 to get to the upper tier of hearing 78s in ways you probably never experienced. The best of them are "hard to believe" good. If you prefer to save money you can play them with the correct stylus in RIAA mode and then use digital means to apply EQ to get the best sound. I learned what I have by gradually doing it, the RekOKut being the last and largest expenditure as I like to play them directly...though I also record the best ones. As to turntable, as long as it is in decent shape most will do as the speed of 78s produces much less rumble and the high tracking forces mean much less compliance as well in other areas. Any old quality table in good condition will do. 

Acoustically recorded disks have NO eq applied. Every electrical record producer had a different EQ to start...hence the need for the RekOKut or other means to correct. As you get into the 40s they get closer and closer together. Some of the earliest LPs were recorded with NAB EQ, which the RekOKut has a setting for. 

Yeah, like all things audio, it's a rabbit hole...but one with a finite bottom unless you really get crazy. I think the 500.00 I mentioned would satisfy all but the most equipment crazed music lover. 150.00 or so if you are good with the EQ correct by other means method. Later 78s sound often sound excellent with nothing but RIAA and the right cartridge, so you might just start with than and expand if you find you want to play a wider variety of these old relics. I can guarantee you this: You will hear recordings that sound better than anyone ever heard them at the time as the recording technology greatly exceeded the available playback technology at the time. I love both "time traveling" with these records as well as wowing people who've never heard them played properly. How good? Well, try the Kid Ory "Muskrat Ramble" from 1926...90 years old! Also perhaps the finest drumming I've ever heard with Gene Krupa/Benny Goodman doing "Sing, Sing, Sing." Both are minimum compression mp3 files but I think you'll get the idea. 

Muskrat_RambleOry.mp3

SingSingSing.mp3

[DizRotus]

Thanks Dave-

 

The recordings sound great.  Are they on a loop?  They seem to go on forever.

 

@Mallette

[Mallette]

Sing, Sing, Sing is a double sided 11" disc, so perhaps 12 minutes, but Muskrat ramble only a single sided 10" disk. Didn't do anything to make them loop but I suppose it's possible. You might check your player settings as well. I didn't do anything but spot check the mp3 versions.

Dave

[DizRotus]

As I've said repeatedly,  IMO, and according to the late great Reg Williamson,  STATIC IS THE KEY.  Therefore, an anti-static agent such as Cyastat SN, or a sutiable alernative, is necessary.  The following post by @canyonman in another cleaning thread is instructive.

Posted 2 hours ago

  On 10/18/2018 at 1:21 PM, DizRotus said:

Does anyone have experience combining CYASTAT SN (or similar anti-static agent) with an ultrasonic, or other liquid based, cleaning system?

 

My suspicions is that it would act on static the same way it does in the Reg Williamson PVA peel system.  My curiosity does not tempt me to experiment with my precious supply CYASTAT SN, when the PVA peel system works so well for me.

I am and have been using one drop of Cyastat SN in 4oz of Alcohol in 80oz of distilled water in my ultrasonic machine, works great!!!

[DaveTheTrumpeter]

10 minutes ago, DizRotus said:

As I've said repeatedly,  IMO, and according to the late great Reg Williamson,  STATIC IS THE KEY.  Therefore, an anti-static agent such as Cyastat SN, or a sutiable alernative, is necessary.  The following post by @canyonman in another cleaning thread is instructive.

Posted 2 hours ago

  On 10/18/2018 at 1:21 PM, DizRotus said:

Does anyone have experience combining CYASTAT SN (or similar anti-static agent) with an ultrasonic, or other liquid based, cleaning system?

 

My suspicions is that it would act on static the same way it does in the Reg Williamson PVA peel system.  My curiosity does not tempt me to experiment with my precious supply CYASTAT SN, when the PVA peel system works so well for me.

I am and have been using one drop of Cyastat SN in 4oz of Alcohol in 80oz of distilled water in my ultrasonic machine, works great!!!

Would this be the formula for a simple spray on cleaner as described in Part 1? I have some very clean LPs I wish I could just destaticize. Maybe I should use the part 1 formula? 

 

I made my part 2 cleaner/destaticizer but I think I may have accidentally added too much alsohol. It’s really runny and has been difficult to apply to an LP.

[DizRotus]

1 minute ago, DaveTheTrumpeter said:

Maybe I should use the part 1 formula? 

 

Try it.  Please share your results.

 

My use of vinyl and the cleaner is different than that of many others.  I clean every record, even brand new records, with the Cyatstat laced PVA peel.  After burning cleaned LPs to FLAC files, I usually return them to used record stores for more buried treasures.  I only keep a few records, e.g., some Sheffield Lab pressings, on hand.  Even with those, I typically play the FLAC versions in balanced mode from a Pono player to one of my balanced/differential class-D amps, rather than the vinyl. 

 

I rarely play vinyl just to listen to music.  Psst . . . I'll let you in on a dirty secret.  EACH time you drag a semi-prescious stone across wavy vinyl, you damage the vinyl.  Compare that to Infitely playing the FLAC files of 1s and 0s, which does them no harm.

[DizRotus]

20 minutes ago, DaveTheTrumpeter said:

I made my part 2 cleaner/destaticizer but I think I may have accidentally added too much alsohol. It’s really runny and has been difficult to apply to an LP.

 

Try experimenting with the ratio of PVA to distilled water, as well as adjusting the aclohol content.  The viscosity should be like moderately thick syrup.  In the beginng it's better to use too much than too little.  With practice you'll hit the sweet spot.

[DaveTheTrumpeter]

1 minute ago, DizRotus said:

 

Try experimenting with the ratio of PVA to distilled water, as well as adjusting the aclohol content.  The viscosity should be like moderately thick syrup.  In the beginng it's better to use too much than too little.  With practice you'll hit the sweet sdpot.

I’ll try the Part 1 treatment and let you know what I find. And yeah, I need to remake the formula because it’s way too thin!

 

 

[DizRotus]

Bump.

[Sam S.]

Free bump for DizRotus, and a thank you for the Cyastat. I recently cooked up a batch of this cleaner/preserver. Following the TAA article directions, it was fairly simple. It took me about 45 minutes to cook up a batch. Early testing indicates it does a pretty good job -- but as others mention it won't help with scratches. I've only used it once thus far --- on a stubborn 45 that had a lot of cracking/popping due to some deeper scratches. It didn't help that, but I will say the thing emerged from the peel with no static whatsoever.

 

 

[DizRotus]

I’m mailing the last bottle of available Cyastat SN this weekend.  Unfortunately, no further requests can be honored.

 

 

TAA_articles.pdf

[DizRotus]

On 11/4/2018 at 1:42 PM, DaveTheTrumpeter said:

I’ll try the Part 1 treatment and let you know what I find. And yeah, I need to remake the formula because it’s way too thin!

 

 

 

David-

 

Any luck?  Better to err on the too thick side than too thin, especially in the beginning.

[JohnKuthe]

On 9/25/2013 at 5:08 PM, DizRotus said:

EDIT:  May 9, 2019

 

My extra Cyastat SN supply has been exhausted.  No more requests for Cyastat SN can be honored.  FYI, the original articles from The Audio Amateur  are attached to the next post.

________________________

 

Years ago I purchased the Reg Williamson record cleaning system from Old Colony Sound Lab. It worked very well. Old vinyl that seemed hopeless was returned to almost new condition, Nothing else I used before, or since, came close.

The kit included DuPont Elvanol (Poly Vinyl Alcohol [PVA] in a white powder) that was mixed with distilled water, glycerin, alcohol, Kodak Photo-Flo and an anti-static agent. Unfortunately, I neglected to stock up before Old Colony disappeared into AudioXpress.

Most of the ingredients are available. The recipe and sources would be helpful. Any assistance would be appreciated.

 

EDIT:  08/24/15

 

If you like, skip to post #108 and keep reading from there.  However, if it's too much trouble to read the entire thread, the effort to cook up a batch will probably be well beyond your level of patience.

 

Go to:

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/155914-bjesus-a-miracleby-dizrotus/?hl=b%26%2339%3Bjesus

for an unsolicited testimonial from Mallette.

Very noble efforts, but as the sign painted "on the bus" said, "Nothing lasts"!

Best we can do is make copies, as NONperfect as those copies may be! That's Mother Gaia's Way TOO! Called "reproduction"! Because of Her predominant paradigm "That Which Works Best" it quickly became apparent that no SINGLE life form could live forever, so Mother Gaia invented REPRODUCTION, making copies from the Original! And then when it became apparent that only one progenitor of copies sometimes/often produced copy errors, Mother Gaia invented Sexual Reproduction, to allow two life forms to draw on the strengths (and sometimes weaknesses!) of TWO life forms to reproduce! 

Pretty clever that Mother Gaia, eh? :-)

John Kuthe...