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DizRotus

The BEST way to clean & preserve vinyl

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What happened to the ol' "spit on a Kleenex and wipe" technique?  After loading your mouth with Everclear, of course.

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Oh geeze, sorry.  It wasn't a kleenex, it was Grandpa's handkerchief.

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Great to see you dude. :D

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5 hours ago, rplace said:

Will it always harden no matter how thick or is there a point that is actually too thick and it never hardens?

 

By thick I meant quantity not viscosity.  “Harden” is not what happens.  It dries and remains pliable.  In my experience, it always dries overnight, irrespective of how thickly it was applied.

 

I always follow the directions.  After heating, stirring, and dissolving the PVA in distilled water for approximately an hour I remove it from the heat and add the rest of the ingredients while continuing to stir.

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Sounds like I am in good shape. Harden was a poor choice. I like dry better:emotion-21:

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Did the other sides this morning. About 3 hours later the first side of one peeled itself. Go figure.

 

IMG_20171203_171939.thumb.jpg.301141e7a177d5544d63d56a5c32354b.jpg

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I’ve never seen that.  My guess is the weight of too much stuff caused that.

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That is what I was thinking. BTW it looks super clean and black as night

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28 minutes ago, rplace said:

That is what I was thinking. BTW it looks super clean and black as night

the real question is how does it sound now ?

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I used a foam brush to apply mine. I did 6 batches and did my entire collection. I've noticed quieter transitions between tracks. Scratches will never be overcome but nice vinyl new or used should sound better. I live in AZ and there is almost no humidity so I collected a lot of dust and funk on my records. I have a partial bottle at the ready and enough elvanol to do 2 more full batches should I need it.

I hope your results are similar.

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Initial impression mixed results. I plan to continue and gather long term thoughts. Long story short I'd say it's worth the time and effort. Especially if you do not already have vacuum record cleaner.

 

Details:

4 records tested none were in terrible shape. 1 was a Thrift store record (Heart Little Queen) that has had fantastic sound all along, but I never had cleaned it on my VPI machine. 1 was a recent used record store purchase (Boston debut LP 2nd pressing) that looked great in the store but had a fair amount of surface noise. Both loud pops general rice crispy noise in the quiet spots. I'm very familiar with this Boston LP I probably have 10 various copies 1/2 speed masters, 180g, etc. The other two was a double LP of Bob Seger's Live Bullet. It was pretty dirty overall, somewhat hazy and smudges here and there.

 

The Boston LP had already been cleaned on my VPI vacuum and I was still not happy with the surface noise. I attributed the loud pops to static the general noise to age/use. Who knows if I am correct there. The Heart was in good shape but not cleaned since I got it. Very listenable the few times I spun it. It was a keeper and in my too be cleaned pile. I specifically used it as a test for the magic goo because it has not been cleaned and I was familiar with it. The double LP Segar was selected because it look like one of my more dirty 2nd hand purchases but it was only $4 and physically looked pretty good so I took a chance on it.

 

The good:

On the Boston LP visually it looked better than before. All the loud cracks/pops seemed to vanish. I hope I am not fooling myself here but I swear the LP is more detailed, more lush with an overall deepness it did not have before. I sounded more like my Simply Vinyl 180g pressing and almost as good as my CBS 1/2 speed master but not as good as the Friday Music 180g. I'm talking purely the music, I believe it sounded better than before sonically. The small rice crispy sounds are still present between tracks and in the very quiet spots throughout side 1. It is these quiet to loud spots that I really like about this LP. The noise detracts from the enjoyment from my perspective. I can't take this LP having any noise. I think it made it a better LP but it did not perform miracles. I thought perhaps there might be some goo still stuck in the tracks based on previous readings. I decided to see if the VPI might help by sucking stuff out of the groove  if there was anything present. I used distilled water only no cleaner. It sounded the same after a vacuum. No better no worse than after goo alone.

 

Bob Seger's Live Bullet also turned out very nice. It looks way better. Much blacker and very clean. If I did not have a vacuum I'd say this plastic facial method is far better than I had ever accomplished by hand, with cleaners and brushes manually. LP sounds good. I've got no complaints for a $4 LP and time spent. More than happy.

 

The Bad:

The first 30 seconds of Barracuda on the Heart LP was terrible. I looked closely under bright light and could see a faint bit of the facial mask right at the start of the LP and into the music. I tried to lift it with my finger nail, no luck. Next I tried some tape. Still there. It was very thin and very stubborn. It did not look like the rest of the mask, more like residue form super glue. Very thin and lightly colored. I cold not get it off. I was afraid I was going to do more harm to the LP than it had started out 2-days ago. I know that spot/noise was not there prior. I put it on the VPI vacuum and that took care of it. The transition form Barracuda to Love Alive and the quiet start of that 2nd track was originally noisy and always distracted from the great sound. I could tell no change in the noise that was originally there. Sonically the LP still sounded great. This is really a well recorded LP and it stayed that way. Had I not had the VPI to get residue off it would have actually made the LP worse. I'm chalking that up to it being my first batch and I probably applied it wrong. Perhaps too thin in that spot to be lifted off given the slight curve of the outside edge of the LP. Overall results no real improvements.

 

Conclusion:

If you don't have access to a vacuum cleaner I'd say this is the best method for cleaning manually. Even with a vacuum I think the anti-static treatment and overall improvement to the look and feel of the LP is worth it. I can't comment on a really trashed record that is physically sound (no scratches) but super dirty. Based on comments by others I'd say that is the real benefit to this method.

 

I'm going to mix up a double batch and look for some really bad LPs as well as a couple of brand new ones purchased by me that I was not happy with right out of the shrink wrap.

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I should cook a batch today.  I owe Rich, @rhing, a free sample of ready-mixed to repay his patience regarding my class D questions.

 

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A double batch is cooling.  I always make twice the recipe, but I encourage tyros to start with a single batch.

 

While doing this, I was thinking about Rich’s, @rplace, photo of the film self-peeling. Rich, did you add the final distilled water while the slurry, with all ingredients, was cooling?  With a double batch the final volume of the slurry should be 1 liter.  If you didn’t add distilled water to bring the volume to the final level, the viscosity would be increased.  The mixture wouldn’t do as many records and it could peel itself due to gravity.  Also, if you flip the record before the first side is dry to the touch that could cause self-peeling.

 

 

E63A38B0-8F36-4710-90D4-D8E9EE45DA8D.jpeg

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Hey Diz! Waiting for the Kodak ingredient to be delivered tomorrow. One question. The Reg W. seems to say this is a two step process. First, the Cyastat SN, then the “peel”. However, I see the recipe calls for Cyastat SN. Is that correct? 

 

Mark

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17 minutes ago, cincymat said:

Hey Diz! Waiting for the Kodak ingredient to be delivered tomorrow. One question. The Reg W. seems to say this is a two step process. First, the Cyastat SN, then the “peel”. However, I see the recipe calls for Cyastat SN. Is that correct? 

 

Mark

 

Only one question?

 

I follow the recipe and add the Cyastat to the cooling slurry.  The first article spoke about adding Cyastat to distilled water and alcohol to do the anti-static treatment before the PVA peel.  The second article mentioned, in a footnote IIRC, that adding the Cyastat to PVA slurry worked just as well.  That is how I’ve done it for decades.  I feel it’s a waste of Cyastat to do it in two steps.

 

Please share you’re experience.

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13 minutes ago, DizRotus said:

 

Only one question?

 

I follow the recipe and add the Cyastat to the cooling slurry.  The first article spoke about adding Cyastat to distilled water and alcohol to do the anti-static treatment before the PVA peel.  The second article mentioned, in a footnote IIRC, that adding the Cyastat to PVA slurry worked just as well.  That is how I’ve done it for decades.  I feel it’s a waste of Cyastat to do it in two steps.

 

Please share you’re experience.

Don’t recall the footnote. I'll read it all again. 

 

I plan to do a before and after video showing the record before treatment and after treatment. 

 

Thanks, Diz!

 

Mark

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15 hours ago, DizRotus said:

.....

 

While doing this, I was thinking about Rich’s, @rplace, photo of the film self-peeling. Rich, did you add the final distilled water while the slurry and all ingredients was cooling?  With a double batch the final volume of the slurry should be 1 liter.  If you didn’t add distilled water to bring the volume to the final level, the viscosity would be increased.  The mixture wouldn’t do as many records and it could peel itself due to gravity.  Also, if you flip the record before the first side is dry to the touch that could cause self-peeling.

 

 

I followed the instructions exactly. Adding all the other stuff after heating/stirring for an hour then enough distilled water to make 500ml. Remember, I was a bit concerned about adding the alcohol while still hot after just taking it off the stove. As for a premature flip, I don't think so. I did the first sides about 4PM and did not flip till about 10:00 AM the next day. By then they already looked to be pulling back from the outer most edge. Sort of like the film was stiff and shrinking. Pretty sure I could have peeled them prior to flipping, but since it was my first try I was going to wait till both sides were coated and dry.

 

I did a second round of LPs with the same batch and they did not self-peel. I think it was just the thickness/weight. So far they have all peeled in one piece. I don't see any particles in goo post peel. I know anything in the grooves would have to be very small, but I still expected to see something from time to time. All my peels are crystal clear.

 

I had a very nicely recorded Columbia 2-eye of Simon and Garfunkel. Beautiful LP but a fair amount of surface noise. Zero improvement over what my VPI vacuum did. Which is to say not much. I'm starting to find from my own tests that it is great at making the LP look fantastic (really black and shiny) and really kills the static but as for making noisy records quiet I'm not finding a silver bullet. I do think it made one LP sound clearer and crisper overall but did not get rid of the surface noise like I had hoped.

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Rich, @rplace, that’s disappointing and atypical.  Is the stylus picking up bits of film on the first playing?  Sometimes the peel and the anti-static remove the surface dirt and break the static bond allowing the stylus to collect anything left in the grooves.  

 

I keep a melamine foam eraser sponge (think Mr. Clean Magic Eraser) handy to gently tap the stylus onto to clean the stylus. Sometimes it takes a few playings to physically clean the grooves.

 

Are you certain the goop is being worked deep into the grooves with a foam brush?  It can’t just sit on the surface.  It must be pushed deep into the grooves.  The removed peel should look like a clear reverse record with grooves clearly evident.

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15 hours ago, cincymat said:

Don’t recall the footnote. I'll read it all again.

 

I looked again.  It’s toward the end of the second article, just before the footnotes.  An editor comments about adding the Cyastat to the slurry.

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2 minutes ago, DizRotus said:

 

I looked again.  It’s toward the end of the second article, just before the footnotes.  An editor comments about adding the Cyastat to the slurry.

Yep, just reread that part. Is 0.5% the percent of the entire 500ml batch? 

 

Mark

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