coolhandjjl Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 …hence it's CD behavior. Dave So for us noobs, that means....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 …hence it's CD behavior. Dave So for us noobs, that means....? Meaning it is constant directivity, at least in the horizontal axis. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Dave, I thought CD horns need +6 db per octave eq boost or somesuch. This horn does not correct? Or am I way off/ignorant? Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 This horn does not require any correction, it is a drop in replacement for the K-77. You are correct that some CD horns require eq, however that is usually horn covering several octaves. Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 6, 2014 Author Share Posted January 6, 2014 A CD horn doesn't collapse the verticals, so there is no lift appied to the naturally falling response. IOWs, a CD horn does not provide any EQ for the driver. Large format drivers normally nosedive between 5 an 8kHz - they need help. In the case of a tweeter that has a diaphragm with very little mass, it's not an issue. So again, is anyone reading the available data on these drivers, or even bothering to look at the plots? Either the DE10 or DE120 will go out plenty far enough, produce less distortion, and have a better power response than what is currently being offered/available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Dean, Yes I have been looking at the plots but alas I am only an amateur. I just wanted to reaffirm that no eq has been applied to obtain these plots. I am keenly interested in trying a pair of these in my Lascalas. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 6, 2014 Author Share Posted January 6, 2014 Lol. It's okay, I'm am an amateur too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 (edited) Either the DE10 or DE120 will go out plenty far enough, produce less distortion, and have a better power response than what is currently being offered/available. is that due to driver performance or lens profile? why no plots versus the 125? Edited January 6, 2014 by Schu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Okay, let's do some pictures. This is from an email from Al. It's titled, "Absolute SPL Study". What we learn is that these new tweeters may not be as sensitive as B&C claims. ***************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** Dean, Here's the study of absolute db SPL methods study I did a few days ago. The text below was actually written to share with Lee Clinton. It explains the attached paste-up of plots. AL K. ......................... In the lower left (blue trace) I used my function generator to put exactly 0.894V RMS CW swept between 5 and 10 KHz from my McIntosh MC50 amp into a B&C DE10 driver. The HP 3563A was calibrated to be 120 dB SPL at the 20 dB mark at the top of the screen using the GR calibrator (114 dB @ 2 KHz) and the B&K 4124 mike that Oden calibrated about 1 1/5 year ago. The analyzer was place on peek continuous average. The level input was 10 dB below 1W at 0.894V RMS rather them 2.828V RMS. (to save my hearing!) The black cure at the right was using my reference attenuator on chancel 1 the mic on channel 2 method as I have been doing it all along. 0 dB = 100 dB SPL. The top plot is using ARTA and the red line is my reference attenuator showing 100 dB reference, Microphone is B&K 4134 at 90deg incidence 1 meter on center. I think they all agree pretty well that THIS DE10 and Eliptrac HF driver is about 103 or 104 dB SPL at 1 meter for 1W input. B&C claims 107 dB? Before I upgraded to the DE-250, I had to use twin DE-10 with ME-10 horns per channel to get the tweeter level up by 3 db, so my former installation agrees with your findings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 That said, I've measured B&C units, they're decent. John? Do you know anything better than decent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolhandjjl Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 (edited) Is having perfectly even response from the mid to tweet the be-all and end-all? I will go out on a limb here and say no. If your are crossing below 6kHz, perhaps, but if you are crossing 6kHz or above, a slight drop in overall tweeter output may be more comfortable sounding. Edited January 6, 2014 by coolhandjjl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 "a slight drop in overall tweeter output may be more comfortable sounding." I would agree if the statement was : a gentle roll-off starting at x-frequency determined by the low-frequency cut-off of the system. If the low end rolls off below 100hz it will sound better balanced if it starts to roll off above 4Khz (rule of 400,000, the product of the LF and HF cut-off should be 400,000). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 Schu, you have a PM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Lol. It's okay, I'm am an amateur too. That makes three of us. Damn it's even in my title. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) I now have a good thread on adapter for use with the Eliptrac HF. I did some testing using the new APT-50, (not the driver used on the CT-125) The response on the new driver is a little choppy and the SPL is bit lower than the K-77M. This test was to verify the effects of using the ADF 25-25 VS my new adapter that couples the driver directly to the horn without spacing the driver back. Edited January 13, 2014 by GotHover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Something I didn't expect to find is the drivers throat measure greater than 1 inch. This is only a concern, because most 1 inch horns and adapters measure 1 inch or less at the throat. Here the ADF 25-25 adapter measures just under 1 inch. In testing I can see and hear a significant difference between the two adapters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) Here are a few shots of the adapters. Dave Edited January 13, 2014 by GotHover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Dave. I noticed in your measurements you have a dip at Hz 1500, 3000, 6000, and 12000. May want to consider something going on with the sound generator and measurement tools. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Good eye, I didin't notice that. I used ARTA gated, I will compare to FFT. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Dave. I noticed in your measurements you have a dip at Hz 1500, 3000, 6000, and 12000. May want to consider something going on with the sound generator and measurement tools. Just a thought. I went back and tested this driver again, the graphs are about the same, tested another driver on the same setup, the glitches are gone. Its just the driver. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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