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#1 HPower

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 09:35 PM

Has anybody heard or tried Wayne Parham's Four Pi speaker?

With the Klipsch Forum being down the last couple weeks, I found myself surfing a little more on some of the other boards

(Audio Round Table, DIY, AudioKarma, etc) and came across a bunch of posts on Wayne's designs and builds.

The Four Pi looks like it might be a nice speaker, it seems to get lots of love from those who have heard it.

I would be curious to how the 4Pi would compare to my beefed up Cornscalas, has anybody compared the 2?

http://www.pispeaker...m/contents.html


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#2 Shakeydeal

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 05:51 AM

I don't mean to hijack your thread. But being a new Cornscala owner, I would love to hear more about your "beefed up" versions?

Shakey


Sonic Euphoria preamp, Quicksilver Mid Monos, Well Tempered Amadeus TT, Benz Micro L2, K&K phono stage, SB Touch, MHDT Havana DAC, PS Audio Power Plant Premiere, Bob Crites built Cornscala "C"

 

"Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you get older, it will avoid you".

 

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#3 HPower

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 07:02 AM

I don't mean to hijack your thread. But being a new Cornscala owner, I would love to hear more about your "beefed up" versions?

Shakey

Well Shakey,

After reading a ton of Cornscala build threads I sort of had an idea of what I was after but things evolve as you go along.
2 winters ago I decided to start my Cornscala build, which would follow Bob's "C Style" recipe.

Tweaked a bit from Bob's plan, I changed or added:

1" Baltic Birch, instead of 3/4', with the front baffle, bottom, and back getting an additional 3/4".
Horizontal brace centered between the woofer and midrange that also supports the midrange driver.
"T" brace across the inside of the tops.
I adjusted the cabinet size slightly to ensure that I maintained the proper internal volume.

I had planned on using Bob's Xover, but Al was just about to release his CornScala-Wall economy Universal and after
speaking with AL I was lucky enough to get one of his very first pair.
Al also suggested the B&C DE85TN instead of the Selenium D405.

Since Al was not that familiar with Bob's M2380 midrange horns and how they would react with the DE85TN and
the CornScala-Wall Xover, I sent one of my M2380s to Al for testing.
End result was that Al thought this combo tested very well.

The following components are used:

Pair of Selenium D220TI Drivers
Pair of Selenium HM 11-25 Horns
Pair of Selenium B&C DE85TN midrange drivers
Pair of M2380 horns
Pair of midrange horn/driver support brackets and pair of 2 inch gaskets
Pair of CW1526CF woofers
Pair of ALK Engineering CornScala-Wall Economy Universal Crossovers
Couple yards of Grill Cloth

I am very happy with the way they turned out and feel that they are as good, if not better sounding than any of
the "real Klipsch" that I have had in the house.
I am maybe a little biased because I built them, but a few of my HiFi buddies also think these Cornscalas play music
nicer than even my previous KHorns.

Now…

Back to my thread :ohmy: … how about those Four Pi speakers ?


The 3 most feared words in racing... "Powered by Honda"

#4 Shakeydeal

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 08:03 AM

Thanks for the response, I bet those sound very good indeed. I am considering one of Al's xovers to replace Bob's, just haven't made the decision yet.

And now, back to your thread. I would be curious as well as to how the 4pi speakers compare to what is arguably a very good speaker (Cornscalas).

Shakey


Sonic Euphoria preamp, Quicksilver Mid Monos, Well Tempered Amadeus TT, Benz Micro L2, K&K phono stage, SB Touch, MHDT Havana DAC, PS Audio Power Plant Premiere, Bob Crites built Cornscala "C"

 

"Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you get older, it will avoid you".

 

Winston Churchill


#5 HPower

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 08:28 AM

Shakey,

I can wholeheartedly recommend Al's Xovers, I doubt you would be disappointed.

Here are a couple shots of the inside of my CS...

IMG_5883.jpg

Attached Thumbnails

  • IMG_5884.jpg

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#6 Shakeydeal

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 09:01 AM

Nice work! icon_headbang.gif


Sonic Euphoria preamp, Quicksilver Mid Monos, Well Tempered Amadeus TT, Benz Micro L2, K&K phono stage, SB Touch, MHDT Havana DAC, PS Audio Power Plant Premiere, Bob Crites built Cornscala "C"

 

"Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you get older, it will avoid you".

 

Winston Churchill


#7 seti

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 09:28 AM

Has anybody heard or tried Wayne Parham's Four Pi speaker?

With the Klipsch Forum being down the last couple weeks, I found myself surfing a little more on some of the other boards

(Audio Round Table, DIY, AudioKarma, etc) and came across a bunch of posts on Wayne's designs and builds.

The Four Pi looks like it might be a nice speaker, it seems to get lots of love from those who have heard it.

I would be curious to how the 4Pi would compare to my beefed up Cornscalas, has anybody compared the 2?

http://www.pispeaker...m/contents.html

Wayne Parham builds good stuff. I heard the 4Pi at Lone Star Audio Fest two years ago. Not sure how they compare but I could be happy with these.

IMG_4961.JPG

IMG_4963.JPG



#8 Chris A

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 04:57 PM

Has anybody heard or tried Wayne Parham's Four Pi speaker?

I would be curious to how the 4Pi would compare to my beefed up Cornscalas, has anybody compared the 2?

I believe that it was a 4Pi that I heard at LSAF this year, albeit set up in a hotel room, like the picture that seti showed above. The room acoustics weren't very good, IMHO, but I'd have to say that these were the most open sounding speakers there, which is to say that they sounded like Cornwalls. My opinion was that they actually sounded the best of any speaker there, including the large room with the line-array drivers and the Fostex-like full range speakers (which was terribly set up, if memory serves). There was only one other pair of speakers there that was well setup, and I cannot remember the name of that outfit, but I'd probably choose the 4Pi's over those others. YMMV.

I firmly believe that Wayne is really a closet acolyte of PWK, and the stuff that I've seen from him is actually very interesting. I believe that he knows what he is doing, although I don't know how he tests his speakers (i.e., anechoically, etc.). My guess is that he does something in terms of instrumented testing to balance his speakers. (Clearly, there were speakers at LSAF that weren't properly tested and balanced, and I mean that emphatically--and with big price tags attached.)

As to whether or not they compete with Cornwalls - well, I'd have to hear both in the same room - and a room with much better acoustics to answer that question.

Why don't you give them a try and let us know how it goes?

Chris


Edited by Cask05, 24 October 2013 - 05:00 PM.


#9 Shakeydeal

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 05:52 PM

As to whether or not they compete with Cornwalls - well, I'd have to hear both in the same room - and a room with much better acoustics to answer that question.

The original question wasn't about Cornwalls.

Shakey


Sonic Euphoria preamp, Quicksilver Mid Monos, Well Tempered Amadeus TT, Benz Micro L2, K&K phono stage, SB Touch, MHDT Havana DAC, PS Audio Power Plant Premiere, Bob Crites built Cornscala "C"

 

"Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you get older, it will avoid you".

 

Winston Churchill


#10 Chris A

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 07:06 PM

As to whether or not they compete with Cornwalls - well, I'd have to hear both in the same room - and a room with much better acoustics to answer that question.

The original question wasn't about Cornwalls.

Shakey

I guess that I offended you - my apologies:

To me a "Cornscala" is nothing but a better Cornwall. You still have higher bass modulation distortion of a direct radiator, but the midrange and tweeter (depending on Bob's choice of model of Cornscala) is slightly improved over a Cornwall, or perhaps its a two-way version with modified conical or tractrix profile, which makes it sound a lot more like a Jubscala. Either way, it's improved over a Cornwall with a K-33 bass bin.

My apologies, once again.

Chris


Edited by Cask05, 24 October 2013 - 07:15 PM.


#11 Shakeydeal

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 03:07 AM

No apologies necessary.

I think of it as much more than a "better Cornwall". The similarities are there for sure, but the CS has better bass definition and much better high frequency extension and detail. And of course you get that big ole midrange horn.

Shakey


Sonic Euphoria preamp, Quicksilver Mid Monos, Well Tempered Amadeus TT, Benz Micro L2, K&K phono stage, SB Touch, MHDT Havana DAC, PS Audio Power Plant Premiere, Bob Crites built Cornscala "C"

 

"Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you get older, it will avoid you".

 

Winston Churchill


#12 HPower

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 04:27 PM

I think Chris is right in comparing the Cornscala to a real Cornwall, it certainly leans more to the CW side of thing vs. the LS side of things.

For me, my Cornscalas are a fairly significant step up in performance over the 2 pairs of Cornwalls that I have previously owned!

Those are 2 good indorcements from seti and Chris for the 4Pi, especially coming from the Klipsch point of refference.

Chris, I will be taking delivery of a pair of used JBL (sorry for the swear word guys) 2226Hs on Monday, so it looks like I am about to take your suggestion...

"Why don't you give them a try and let us know how it goes?"

I probably won't get to the build until later in the new year, which will give me time to save and source the balance of the peices needed to fill Wayne's recipe.

Not to mention that I am still elbows deep in my current project, a pair of Frugal Horns.

Quite the contradiction to the Cornscalas, in size and configuration...

IMG_0529.jpg

IMG_0536.jpg

IMG_0533.jpg


Edited by HPower, 25 October 2013 - 04:55 PM.

The 3 most feared words in racing... "Powered by Honda"

#13 HPower

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 12:13 PM

Well, I had a bit of a set back with the used woofers that I took the chance on with the FleaBay purchase.

They showed up last week and it was quite obvious that the one was reconned with a non JBL kit.

I decided to take them into my local JBL service center to get checked out and discovered that the recone was not with authentic

JBL parts.

Then the tech said that the other woofer (the not re-coned one) has a sagging, partially collapsed cone.
He said he sees this in woofers that have been around the block and felt it should
be re-coned to getting it playing properly again.

The Toronto service center quoted me $300 plus tax (13% up here) per woofer and the best price by a USA JBL service

center (in Rochester) was $165 per woofer.

I guess this is why they say JBL stands for "Junk But Loud" ;)

Fortunately my FleaBay seller offered to take them back, with me just loosing the return shipping.

I then decided to roll the dice again and paid a bit more on eBay and ordered a NOS pair of JBL 2226HPLs... we will see when they arrive next week.


The 3 most feared words in racing... "Powered by Honda"

#14 Shakeydeal

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 12:39 PM

That looks like a Cornscala-wall xover in your boxes. Did you originally have the Crites xover? If so, what difference did you hear when you swapped them out? I have the CS wall on order.

Thanks,

Shakey


Sonic Euphoria preamp, Quicksilver Mid Monos, Well Tempered Amadeus TT, Benz Micro L2, K&K phono stage, SB Touch, MHDT Havana DAC, PS Audio Power Plant Premiere, Bob Crites built Cornscala "C"

 

"Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you get older, it will avoid you".

 

Winston Churchill


#15 DeanG

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 03:55 PM

It will sound smoother, more relaxed and open and allow for less distortion when driven to higher volume levels. It's basically the same as the Universal Type A -- the primary cap and coil combination are slightly adjusted for reasons I'm not allowed to talk about. Okay, I'm allowed, I just don't feel like typing that much.

The midhorn looks like a clone of the JBL 2380. I hope not -- don't see how anyone could think that sounds good.


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#16 HPower

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 09:11 AM

It will sound smoother, more relaxed and open and allow for less distortion when driven to higher volume levels. It's basically the same as the Universal Type A -- the primary cap and coil combination are slightly adjusted for reasons I'm not allowed to talk about. Okay, I'm allowed, I just don't feel like typing that much.

The midhorn looks like a clone of the JBL 2380. I hope not -- don't see how anyone could think that sounds good.

I believe it is a JBL 2380 clone... I guess I must be "anyone" :wacko:

All I can say is that my Cornscalas sound good to my ears, better than any of my previous Heritage which were all basically in stock form.

2 winters ago when I built the CSs, I think Bob felt this horn was a reasonably price upgrade over the K400 horn as per the original Cornwall / La Scala recipe.

Yes, with a "cost, no object" build, a pair of Dave's Fastrac mid horns or Greg Roberts Fc260 korns would have been a fantastic option.

That looks like a Cornscala-wall xover in your boxes. Did you originally have the Crites xover? If so, what difference did you hear when you swapped them out? I have the CS wall on order.

Thanks,

Shakey

No, I have only had Al's Cornscala-wall xover...

and dispite that JUNK BUT LOAD clone :) mid horn, things are sounding pretty darn nice.

The 4Pi are going to have to be pretty great to compete with the CSs.


The 3 most feared words in racing... "Powered by Honda"

#17 seti

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 09:39 AM

It will sound smoother, more relaxed and open and allow for less distortion when driven to higher volume levels. It's basically the same as the Universal Type A -- the primary cap and coil combination are slightly adjusted for reasons I'm not allowed to talk about. Okay, I'm allowed, I just don't feel like typing that much.

The midhorn looks like a clone of the JBL 2380. I hope not -- don't see how anyone could think that sounds good.

I believe it is a JBL 2380 clone... I guess I must be "anyone" :wacko:

All I can say is that my Cornscalas sound good to my ears, better than any of my previous Heritage which were all basically in stock form.

2 winters ago when I built the CSs, I think Bob felt this horn was a reasonably price upgrade over the K400 horn as per the original Cornwall / La Scala recipe.

Yes, with a "cost, no object" build, a pair of Dave's Fastrac mid horns or Greg Roberts Fc260 korns would have been a fantastic option.

That looks like a Cornscala-wall xover in your boxes. Did you originally have the Crites xover? If so, what difference did you hear when you swapped them out? I have the CS wall on order.

Thanks,

Shakey

No, I have only had Al's Cornscala-wall xover...

and dispite that JUNK BUT LOAD clone :) mid horn, things are sounding pretty darn nice.

The 4Pi are going to have to be pretty great to compete with the CSs.

The 4Pi are great speakers and the bigger ones are even better. Wayne Parham builds very good stuff. I especially like the 8Pi.



#18 Shakeydeal

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 10:25 AM

HPower,

What tweeter are you using? What made you decide on the B&C midrange driver instead of the Selenium?

Shakey


Sonic Euphoria preamp, Quicksilver Mid Monos, Well Tempered Amadeus TT, Benz Micro L2, K&K phono stage, SB Touch, MHDT Havana DAC, PS Audio Power Plant Premiere, Bob Crites built Cornscala "C"

 

"Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you get older, it will avoid you".

 

Winston Churchill


#19 HPower

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 01:18 PM

Shakey,

Go back up and have a look at the #4 post for all that I used to do my build.

I went with the B&C based on Al's recommendation while we were talking about putting his "new, then" Cornscala-wall xovers into my build.


The 3 most feared words in racing... "Powered by Honda"

#20 Shakeydeal

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 02:01 PM

Got it, thanks!

Shakey


Sonic Euphoria preamp, Quicksilver Mid Monos, Well Tempered Amadeus TT, Benz Micro L2, K&K phono stage, SB Touch, MHDT Havana DAC, PS Audio Power Plant Premiere, Bob Crites built Cornscala "C"

 

"Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you get older, it will avoid you".

 

Winston Churchill