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Heresy HIP


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How do I know what year mine are made in? I was going to update the crossovers but since these appear to be newer than my 1978 LaScalas I am not sure if it is needed quite yet. Could I just wait till I go with some nice new crossovers for the LaScalas and then do these? The caps are little black rectangles. The tweeters are k77m, mids k55m, woofers are k42e. The crossovers are type HIE.

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tia,

Ron

Edited by ellisr63
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So would these be the same as Heresy IIs? I am assuming by looking at them that the caps are not the oil and paper... Is that correct? If so do they last longer than the oil and paper? Would they need to be replaced ASAP? They are currently being used for my surrounds.

tia,

Ron

Edited by ellisr63
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These are not Heresy II. There are also not Heresy Pro (Standard Heresy with textured paint, aluminum trim, or fiberglass options) nor the latter "KP" series.

These are Heresy Industrial Ported.

There is only one type of HIP, and it is distinguished by the use of the K-42 woofer, HIE filter network, and slot-loaded vent along the bottom of the cabinet.

You are correct about the type of filter capacitors. They are not oil and paper.

Yes, this type (metalized-polypropylene film) lasts a very long time...arguably longer than any mortal.

No, they would not need replacing.

Your speakers are in excellent condition.

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Those are motor run Mylar types, not polypropylene.

They're not horrible, but they aren't great either.

The Dayton polypropylene sounded better, and cost very little, I also added Dayton 0.1µF Film-and-Foil bypass caps, less than $1 each.

Edited by djk
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Quiet Hollow is a smart guy, so I don't want to get into a pissing match over caps that can be replaced for the price of a pizza -- but I disagree with him. We have too much evidence that tells us these caps do in fact wear out (dielectric breakdown). BEC has been measuring these things for years and the great majority of them measure flat out horrible. The black rectangular caps are mylar motor runs, the larger ones found on the networks for the bigger speakers are the same type, but oil filled. I've had close to a half dozen sent to me leaking oil all over the board. These are all roughly the same age, so I figure if one on the board is leaking, the other ones on the board are probably shot too. The real issue here relates to sound. Even if they were perfectly fine, higher quality and better sounding replacements are very affordable.

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BEC has posted measurements of Mylar caps that measured right-on-the-money for value, but had massive ESR loses causing severe attenuation of the signal.

The most probable cause of this type of failure is the lead attachment point, lower priced units use a tin spray with the leads just mashed in.

Remarks on PIO caps:

Prior to 1971 Klipsch used surplus PIO types (decades old) that had glass hermetic seals, these type seldom fail. After a short (failed) experiment with Mylar types new PIO types were obtained, but the seals do not look to be glass hermetic, and they fail (after a couple of decades of use).

JBL caps:

Four decades ago JBL used Mylar caps custom made by ElectroCube, even their $99 entry level model, the L-16. They looked like cardboard toilet-paper tubes willed with wax (because that's what they were). However, the lead wires were soldered to the stacked-foil capacitor element, and the wires were Teflon. I have never seen one of these fail.

ElectroCube still make audio grade caps, paper and foil types, but only up to 2.2µF.

Edited by djk
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Ron was under the impression that running his new Heresy Industrials with "worn out" crossovers would cause damage to them.

...so much so, to the point of considering purchase of hardware before even taking possession of his cabinetry.

I was reassuring him that "that" wasn't the case, and that there are other maintenance items that take precedent over the filter network upon accepting ownership, should he be inclined to be proactive about anything.

Stuff that not only immediately results in bad sound, but most certainly would lead to damaged if left alone over the long term...like loose hardware and air leaks.

Edited by Quiet_Hollow
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These are not Heresy II. There are also not Heresy Pro (Standard Heresy with textured paint, aluminum trim, or fiberglass options) nor the latter "KP" series.

These are Heresy Industrial Ported.

There is only one type of HIP, and it is distinguished by the use of the K-42 woofer, HIE filter network, and slot-loaded vent along the bottom of the cabinet.

You are correct about the type of filter capacitors. They are not oil and paper.

Yes, this type (metalized-polypropylene film) lasts a very long time...arguably longer than any mortal.

No, they would not need replacing.

Your speakers are in excellent condition.

So are the Industrials better than the pro speakers... Or is it just a matter of taste?

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So are the Industrials better than the pro speakers... Or is it just a matter of taste?

"Better" would be kind of misleading....more like a matter of application.

The HIP is a Heresy that's been re-tooled inside and out specifically for the demands of the pro-audio circuit. As such, when served straight-up they are not "flat", they are not laid back in any way, and they will require EQ at a minimum to sound their best (most typically working in combination with a component woofer or subwoofer). Some could also argue that they ain't exactly easy on the eyes.

Where as a Heresy Pro (or it's cousin, the H-SM) is simply a standard Heresy masquerading in a tour-friendly cosmetic finish, the HIP (and the HI-SM respectively) sport a hardware combination that delivers maximum SPL by housing a very badass woofer and a filter network set to wide-open throttle.

They are really designed with only two goals in mind, sparing no expense for much else beyond:

1. Sheer SPL through the typical PA pass band via higher sensitivity and more power handling

2. Road-proof

In summary, "better" becomes more like "better for what?"

- As the cornerstones of a minimalist 2-channel setup? Not very likely....wouldn't be my first pick.

- As the wide receivers in a modern 5.1 system or as flown mains in a high energy 2.1 system? :emotion-21:

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  • 1 month later...
  • 4 months later...

Ron was under the impression that running his new Heresy Industrials with "worn out" crossovers would cause damage to them.

...so much so, to the point of considering purchase of hardware before even taking possession of his cabinetry.

I was reassuring him that "that" wasn't the case, and that there are other maintenance items that take precedent over the filter network upon accepting ownership, should he be inclined to be proactive about anything.

Stuff that not only immediately results in bad sound, but most certainly would lead to damaged if left alone over the long term...like loose hardware and air leaks.

let me ask then... doesn't bad signal and distortion cause damage to the moving parts of a driver? I thought a major contributing factor to driver destruction was a distorted signal in combination with to much gain?

Edited by Schu
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so long as there is no mechanical issue you have no problem and so long as the distortion does not build up too much heat in the vc you are ok. ten watt receivers distorting to the max to play loud for you is what melts vc due to excessive heat build up. punching 200 watts into a 25 watt vc for a fraction of a second does not build up enough heat to do any damage. music as a source generally does not have a wide enough band to be a problem but wide band distortion as in a very strained amp will cause problems. you need to develop a sense what clean is and what distorted is and then turn things down when they get distorted. if things get distorted too frequently then either get a more efficient and larger set of speakers or a larger amp. does that make sense? best regards Moray James.

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"ten watt receivers distorting to the max to play loud for you is what melts vc due to excessive heat build up."

And which Klipsch speaker cannot handle the full distorted output of this 10W receiver?

The smallest coil used in the Heritage series woofers was a 2" coil, and the Klipschorn with its (mighty) 2" coil was rated to handle 40W of DC.

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