Best Crossovers and Other Upgrades for Belles Driven by 2 Watt

[PrestonTom]

Dean, I have tried the "universals" and these did sound better than the 20 year old crossovers. I also discovered that simply updating the caps on a standard AA crossover captured most of that improvement. I have also used film/foil as bypass caps to a refreshed network and found that any additional gains were quite small. Otheres may be more sensitve to these differences, perhaps. I have heard aftermarket designs and they did sound good, but they were also quite expensive. For me, the "value" (performance as a function of price) was not there. Perhaps others may see a greater value.

As far as electronic crossovers with steeer slopes, bi-amping and time alignment, the improvement was considerable. This is my opinion. As with any upgrade, there are critical details on the implementation. Not all changes will be imrovements.

In terms of cost, it need not break the bank. In my case I used a Behringer DCX 2496 crossover and used a digital source. This unit must be modified, but it can be done easily. Simply replace the the analog out section with a transformer. An Edcor transformer is about $10 per channel, Cinemag and Jensen will be 3 and 8 times more expensive (so choose your price point). You will need more amps but they need not be expensive (in the past I have used Adcom GFA 5x5 amps with modest cap upgrades - these do not cost much on the used market).

There are other choices obviously. The above worked for me. It does rely on being comfortable with used equipment and a certain amount of DIY for making modifications. This may not be for everyone. Personally I enjoy the satisfaction of DIY and there is a huge amount of help on the various user groups.

As far as a horn goes, they can be retro-fit into the cabinet. Many choices here that come up on the used market. I have already mentioned the K-510 and the EV HP640 (that might be a bit big for the Belle - I don't have the measurements).

I have offered a "technical solution". For the life of me, I don't understand why the other poster would scoff at that approach. Perhaps it lacks "mystique".

Hopefully, these comments will be food for thought for the original poster and others. It is not a turnkey solution, but it may be an alternative for some.

[Marvel]

Never tried physically moving the drivers -- Dennis tried to get me to do that. Problem is, I can be a bit lazy, especially if everything is sounding really good just the way it is.

I know I have posted this before, but I like to beat a dead horse...

This is the Eminence 150 horn with the same driver Bob sells (the original APT). Aligning this with the mid driver was quite audibly noticeable. I suppose there may be a way to measure this, but certainly not with what I have in my house. Chris has talked about this, even though he prefers the active route.

For me, once the crossovers were better (they can always be better still...) this was an easy thing to try. I still have the CT125s in the cabinets, but I don't want to switch back. It could be some of the difference is the larger, wider dispersion horn on the tweeter. It just doesn't seem very unattractive to me, so we're good with the looks in our house.

Bruce

[Wolfbane]

I've figured out where I'm going with my Belles.

Step 1 install Crites CT-125 tweeters listen and compare one Belle speaker to the other using one of my tube amps with balance controls.

Step 2 install Crites A/4500 crossovers and then compare them using the process above.

Step 3 save some cash to upgrade the mids and then look at upgrading these with the Volti horns per the attached link: Belle V-Trac Horns - Klipsch Upgrades by Volti Audio - Speaker Restoration.

I suspect that the crossover replacement should make a big improvement over the 30 year old AB crossovers that these speakers arrived with.

I'm not certain if the Volti horns will work properly with the Crites crossover though.

[Deang]

You probably already know this, but just in case you don't -- that horn is designed to be used with 2" exit drivers. If you go that route, you can use the crossovers, but they will have to be modified. The new horn/driver combination will be much louder for the same amount of wattage (compared to what you have now). Most are attenuating between 12 and 13.5dB with the big drivers (the stock mid is attenuated 3dB). When you get to that point, send me your crossovers -- I'll modify them for you free of charge (you'll have to cover shipping though).

[Deang]

Dag gone Tom, now I feel bad for leaning on you so hard (now everyone knows what it takes to get me to feel bad). I'm so used to seeing opinions without direct experience that I forgot that there are still people left here who have valid opinions, sorry about that. What I of course enjoyed about the post is what I've been saying all along about the active route, there has to be a willingness and commitment to see it through, both in skillsets and/or money. You dodged the money problem because you knew what mods to do and how to do them, which is very cool. Have you considered starting a small business doing this for people (no, I'm not kidding).

Edited November 16, 2013 by DeanG

[PrestonTom]

Dean, no problem. I just wanted to present some other possibilities that others may want to pursue.

It assumes that folks have some technical background, a readiness to learn and some DIY skills. That approach is not for everyone. You and I are from a generation (I assume) where we used to work on cars, maybe even do a bit of customizing etc. So experiemnting and tinkering in audio is a natural extension and a satisfying hobby. Again, many others are either not interested or a bit intimidated, who knows. As far as a small business .... I probably don't have what it takes. The business part would get in the way of the fun part and I am certain that I don't have the patience.

[Wolfbane]

You probably already know this, but just in case you don't -- that horn is designed to be used with 2" exit drivers. If you go that route, you can use the crossovers, but they will have to be modified. The new horn/driver combination will be much louder for the same amount of wattage (compared to what you have now). Most are attenuating between 12 and 13.5dB with the big drivers (the stock mid is attenuated 3dB). When you get to that point, send me your crossovers -- I'll modify them for you free of charge (you'll have to cover shipping though).

Thanks for the offer. I suspect that it will be sometime in the 1st half of next year if I decide to go for the Volti horns.

Wb

[Toon Army]

I'm currently building 2-way cornscalas and have some ALK ES500 networks. Does anyone have any ideas on the power I am likely going to need to power them? I live in a small English house and will not be able to crank it up like some. Is there a way to calculate insertion loss?

Paul

[Deang]

50 watts, mostly to cover the peaks (if there is actually any music left that has any).

Seriously, you can go with anywhere between 3 and 100 watts. The quality of the watts will be more important.

[Wolfbane]

I'm currently building 2-way cornscalas and have some ALK ES500 networks. Does anyone have any ideas on the power I am likely going to need to power them? I live in a small English house and will not be able to crank it up like some. Is there a way to calculate insertion loss?

Paul

My 2 WPC 45 Tube Amp could easily drive my 98.5dB Cornwalls to a reasonably loud, when I wanted it, level.

[Toon Army]

Thank you both DeanG and Wolfbane.

It's just that on another forum it was said I may not be happy using a 4 Watt amp with the ES networks, though it was an OTL amp which does better with higher impedance speakers so this may have been why they advised this.

Paul

[Daan]

My Decware Zen amps also only have 2 Watts to offer, but they play very [very] nice with Al's "universals".

These crossovers can be used for other speakers as well, so if you buy something else later; put them in your new ones.