Jump to content

Klipschorn mid range upgrade


wafish
 Share

Recommended Posts

I have a set of Klipschorns from the early 90's with AK3 crossovers. I would like to tinker around a bit and try out a different mid horn and driver in conjunction with the stock crossover. My question is , are the stock midrange drivers 16 ohm ? If so will it hurt the crossover if I use an 8 ohm driver? I don't have the technical knowledge about electronics , just a basic understanding which is why Im here. Hope no one minds questions from a newbie.

BTW, the horns I want to try are Altec 1003b with possibly a 288 driver. I already have the horns (my wife just loves them,lol) and have tried them with a k55v driver that I made an adaptor for. Please don't ask for a pic...its not a pretty sight. They do however sound good to me. Would now like to hear them with a proper driver. What do you think?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, you're starting into a journey many here have travelled. That would include myself. I went thru a number of iterations. This is where I ended up. I completely removed my Khorns top hats and had granite shelves made to those dimensions. Thus I had full access to to whatever was needed for both the tweeter.midrange drivers and their horns. The greatest single expense I met was in replacing the passive crossovers. I removed AK-4 units and purchased Al Klappenburgers steep slope crossover.

The midrange drivers are JBL 2482's using phenolic diaphragms. These are massive 2 inch format, tried and true 16ohm drivers. They require a 2 inch horn and I use Dave Hoovers Elliptrac horn. The drivers are not cheap but for the $$$ Dave's Elliptrac horns are an excellent buy and they do come in 1 inch formats, as well.

I use the JBL 2404 Baby Cheek tweeters.

The base bins use the 2004 stock base drivers.

The midrange and tweeter rigs are simply attached to each other by a single board and they sit atop the granite.

You will find a horde of different configurations on these forums for putzing with the Khorn. I am extremely pleased with how mine sound and ended my look-for-better project with this end point.

Good luck, enjoy the journey, try not to spend too much money, ask a lot of questions, ask them all twice so you understand what you wish to do. See if some folks live close by so you can trial their devices. It is oodles of fun, very rewarding and you eventually will reach your own nirvana.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for your replies. Time (and money) will tell where this "journey" will take me. For now Im just glad to have the info on the k55 driver. It will help with my future driver selection. Was wondering if anyone else had any experience with the Altec 1003b horn? I was thinking that because of its range it would be a great starting point....aside from its cool factor :D As for drivers I have read a lot of pros and cons about different drivers, hopefully I will make a reasonable decision. Anyone have any experience with the Altec drivers? I have seen that Great Plains Audio still makes them and replacement diaghrams for the old ones.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest David H

I have never heard them, but specs indicate they would work.

Specifications.JPG
Border.JPG

Frequency Cutoff 300Hz Distribution Pattern 35°x 90° Sound Pressure Level measured at 30 feet
288 driver: 113 dB SPL
290 driver: 116 dB SPL
730 driver: 106 dB SPL Cell Configuration 2x5 Throat single throat 30210
Fits standard Altec Drivers 1.4” 3-bolt Dimensions 37 1/2" W x 19" H x 31" D Weight 30.5 lbs each unpacked

Dave

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, you're starting into a journey many here have travelled. That would include myself. I went thru a number of iterations. This is where I ended up. I completely removed my Khorns top hats and had granite shelves made to those dimensions. Thus I had full access to to whatever was needed for both the tweeter.midrange drivers and their horns. The greatest single expense I met was in replacing the passive crossovers. I removed AK-4 units and purchased Al Klappenburgers steep slope crossover.

The midrange drivers are JBL 2482's using phenolic diaphragms. These are massive 2 inch format, tried and true 16ohm drivers. They require a 2 inch horn and I use Dave Hoovers Elliptrac horn. The drivers are not cheap but for the $$$ Dave's Elliptrac horns are an excellent buy and they do come in 1 inch formats, as well.

I use the JBL 2404 Baby Cheek tweeters.

The base bins use the 2004 stock base drivers.

The midrange and tweeter rigs are simply attached to each other by a single board and they sit atop the granite.

You will find a horde of different configurations on these forums for putzing with the Khorn. I am extremely pleased with how mine sound and ended my look-for-better project with this end point.

Good luck, enjoy the journey, try not to spend too much money, ask a lot of questions, ask them all twice so you understand what you wish to do. See if some folks live close by so you can trial their devices. It is oodles of fun, very rewarding and you eventually will reach your own nirvana.

What crossover frequency did you use for the mids/tweeters?

I have the 2404's to use with a pair of La Scalas and will be using JBL 2470 1" drivers, so I am thinking that I should try to push the frequency down to take the load off of the mid. Looking at the JBL spec sheet, it looks like 4000 or 4500 is about as low as you should go (They are listed to go to 3,000, but are 15 db down, and much worse off axis)

I also have a pair of K Horns that I will use in a shop that have blown tweeters. I have K55's for these and am thinking the same thing here, when I buy replacement tweeters, go 4500 or so if the tweeter can handle it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The 2470 is a great sounding driver, it's what I used with the Klipschorns and Al's Trachorn. I ended up using a Type A network and it sounded terrific. Somewhere on here is thread of me tearing down my new AK-4 Klipschorns (to everyone's dismay) and doing the install. I eventually bought the Behringer and a microphone -- there was no indication that there was any hole in the response. I could drive the system to earsplitting levels without a problem, but then again -- I wasn't in a room the size of a barn either.

Make sure you're 2470s actually have the phenolics in them, I believe the replacements that were available were aluminium (not 100% sure about that one, it's been a while).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, you're starting into a journey many here have travelled. That would include myself. I went thru a number of iterations. This is where I ended up. I completely removed my Khorns top hats and had granite shelves made to those dimensions. Thus I had full access to to whatever was needed for both the tweeter.midrange drivers and their horns. The greatest single expense I met was in replacing the passive crossovers. I removed AK-4 units and purchased Al Klappenburgers steep slope crossover.

The midrange drivers are JBL 2482's using phenolic diaphragms. These are massive 2 inch format, tried and true 16ohm drivers. They require a 2 inch horn and I use Dave Hoovers Elliptrac horn. The drivers are not cheap but for the $$$ Dave's Elliptrac horns are an excellent buy and they do come in 1 inch formats, as well.

I use the JBL 2404 Baby Cheek tweeters.

The base bins use the 2004 stock base drivers.

The midrange and tweeter rigs are simply attached to each other by a single board and they sit atop the granite.

You will find a horde of different configurations on these forums for putzing with the Khorn. I am extremely pleased with how mine sound and ended my look-for-better project with this end point.

Good luck, enjoy the journey, try not to spend too much money, ask a lot of questions, ask them all twice so you understand what you wish to do. See if some folks live close by so you can trial their devices. It is oodles of fun, very rewarding and you eventually will reach your own nirvana.

What crossover frequency did you use for the mids/tweeters?

I have the 2404's to use with a pair of La Scalas and will be using JBL 2470 1" drivers, so I am thinking that I should try to push the frequency down to take the load off of the mid. Looking at the JBL spec sheet, it looks like 4000 or 4500 is about as low as you should go (They are listed to go to 3,000, but are 15 db down, and much worse off axis)

I also have a pair of K Horns that I will use in a shop that have blown tweeters. I have K55's for these and am thinking the same thing here, when I buy replacement tweeters, go 4500 or so if the tweeter can handle it.

Alk's Xtreme slope squawker/tweeter network crosses at 5.8K and you can adjust attenuation. Unsure where mine is set at. This provides for me the best, full use of the 2482 using the phenolic diaphragm. I have the 2482 crossed at 400 on the low end.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I follow this topic for a long time. When I built the Hhorns I came up with the K-55 and Altec 511 horn along with the JBL 2404.

I used to fool around with an Altec A7-500 cabinet (one of the Voice of the Theater systems). There was something satsfying about the Altec 511 horn that I liked.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

True, like all metal horns, it rings. No shortage of threads in the archives on how to deal with it.

At what frequency though?

Here's a tip: It ain't where everyone thinks it would.

I'd double-down that ringing was never a problem with the design to begin with. However, there clearly were / are no shortage of users that didn't obey the placement restrictions for a 60°x 40° horn either.

One does not simply pick up an empty horn, strike it like a bell, then proclaim that's the resonant tone that emanates when it's installed and under use.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cool little video. Is it really fully applicable to a situation like this -- I'm honestly asking -- I have no idea.

We are led to believe that if mounted to a motorboard, the resonances are damped. Most using the 511 however don't mount them, they are usually seen freestanding. Shawn Fogg (who no longer posts) got his to quiet down just by adding a little bit of putty on the top edge of the mouth of the horn. It didn't take much.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can't speak for the 511, but basically my point (..and I realize I'm a little off topic here) was that ringing as it often applies in discussion to the K-400, is moot.

I'm not implying that the design couldn't ultimately be improved upon, just that this one factor isn't as big of a deal as it's often made out to be.

As-installed, the horn is heavily constrained in the transverse plane, well-damped in the axial plane, and even if it did begin to resonate for whatever reason, the frequency at which it would end up vibrating at would not be characteristic of "honk" in any way.

Edited by Quiet_Hollow
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The 2470 is a great sounding driver, it's what I used with the Klipschorns and Al's Trachorn. I ended up using a Type A network and it sounded terrific. Somewhere on here is thread of me tearing down my new AK-4 Klipschorns (to everyone's dismay) and doing the install. I eventually bought the Behringer and a microphone -- there was no indication that there was any hole in the response. I could drive the system to earsplitting levels without a problem, but then again -- I wasn't in a room the size of a barn either.

Make sure you're 2470s actually have the phenolics in them, I believe the replacements that were available were aluminium (not 100% sure about that one, it's been a while).

I remember when you were doing this. We both bought the 2470s at about the same time. Mine do have the phenolics in them.

I am either going to build a Trachorn or the horn that Dave is playing around with right now in updated (looks like a Martinelli). What high end crossover should l I use? Paring them with 2404's, so I should be able to go down to about 4500 or 4000. These will be in La Scalas so I guess 500 on the bottom.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...